Why you don't get published.
Thursday, June 29, 2006
Q & A 58 Professional editing services
How do you and your minions feel about professional editing services? I have no doubt critiquing groups are helpful for most, but I have limited p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e (I hate meetings unless cocktails are served) and how would I know if the critter is proficient enough to be helpful; it takes special talent to offer good crits (applause for Mr. Evil). Isn't it worth the investment to pay a professional?
It's not clear how you would know the editor you're paying is proficient enough to be helpful, either, though I suppose if you could get the same advice for $500 that you could get for free, you'd be more likely to take it if you paid for it. Have you tried editing the book yourself, early in the morning, before you've had your cocktails? Or setting the book aside for two months, then reading it? Often you'll spot areas that are problematic.
Considering how many of Evil Editor's minions seek input on their work, and how many comments appear saying, That book sounds interesting, I'd read it, maybe Evil Editor should match up those minions who want critique partners. An online partner eliminates the need for meetings, and you can drink your cocktails while writing your critiques.
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14 comments:
I find critiquing is ultimately a frustrating process. I can give other writers advice on how to improve their book in terms of how it's written (at least, I think I can) but I have no clue how to give them advice that will make it more saleable. I'd like to think the two are the same, but years of experience suggest they're not.
If your work needs a line-edit, I'd say, bite the bullet and learn how to do it yourself. Otherwise you'll always be dependent on others. If you want to know if it's publishable, submit it.
Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is the one coming from the person who says "I'd love to represent/publish your book, but I think it'll do even better if you change this, this and this.".
Sheesh, EE, everyone knows that cocktails are best before 9:00 am. Lunch is for beer or cider, evening is red wine time, and late nights are for straight shots of aqvavit with Uncle Paol and Aunt Birgit.
As for that gray area between 4:00 and 7:00 am, that's when a medicinal dose of Den Gammel Dansk is in order.
If EE is serious about the matchup. Please let me know. I'm nearly finished with my second draft. At the rate in which my writing group is moving, it would take two years to complete it!
Dear Mr. Evil:
As usual, you are correct. After I rip my eyes off the manuscript for a while, Johnny Walker and I see the errors (he accompanies me everywhere, very friendly fellow).
I will place my checkbook on the bar (next to the cheap stuff) with the hope that you will decide to partner your minions for online critiques. Johnny and I will try our best to perform to your standards.
What's your poison, Mr. Evil?
P.S. THX buffysquirrel, frustrating, isn't it?
Speaking as a professional freelance copyeditor with 22 years’ experience in publishing, I say using the services of a professional editor is worthwhile. How do you find one, and how do you know if the critter is proficient?
After you’ve had your manuscript critiqued by a writers’ group and revised it, do an Internet search on the phrase “freelance editor” or “freelance copyeditor.” Peruse the web sites of several of the freelancers who are listed in the search results. Look for a philosophy of editing, a client list, a résumé, a project list, and affiliations with profession-related associations. E-mail a few freelancers whose sites inspire confidence. Ask about their working process, their rates, their time frames. Of those whose responses you like, request a sample edit. This generally isn’t free, but because a sample is usually 5 to 10 of your 250-word, double-spaced pages, it won’t be that expensive. Choose an editor on the basis of compatibility and how well you like his or her editing; don’t choose the one who says your golden prose is perfect as is. Choose the editor whom you feel will help your writing sound like what you meant to say in the first place. Then get a written contract and dig in!
Dear Professional Copyeditor a/k/a Anonymous:
May I ask a few questions?
1) If I understand you correctly, I should first be critiqued by a writer's group (absent cocktails in long-winded meetings where I try to slit my wrists with a pencil).
2) Then, after five years and several scars on each wrist, I should "shop" for freelance editors on the internet and look at philosophy of editing? (There's a philosphy to editing? I don't mean to be rude, but aren't editors paid to clean up after writers? Shouldn't editors follow a writer's philosophy? Pls correct me if I'm wrong.)
3) Then I should look at client list, resume, project list. It's important that I know what they're working on now? Shouldn't I ask for references and contact those references?
4) Then I pick editors from the websites and query as to "working process" (huh?), rates (very important) and time frames. May I ask for references now?
5) Then request several sample edits (not free)and decide from there.
Well, it's no wonder I drink.
Will professional freelance copyeditor with 22 years of publishing experience accept some advice? When promoting a product or service, place yourself in the position of the consumer before making a pitch; it might help in your quest to communicate the advantages.
Oh, my, did I just edit and editor?
I hope you're a good sport (if you deal with writers, you better be) because I appreciate your response on this issue.
I have been working with an editor who has helped me quite a bit while I've been revising my manuscript.
I would recommend finding someone you trust, someone who has been in the industry, and someone who is not too expensive but is flexible. I would also recommend NOT handing over the entire manuscript all at once.
What worked really well for me was giving the editor the synopsis first. That illuminated a couple of opportunities for improvement right away. Then I gave her each chapter after I finished my revision of that chapter. Her comments back on that chapter helped me revise and adjust later chapters much more efficiently, resulting in a much better revision than if I'd done it all myself and handed it to her for an editing pass. (Plus, she knew what was coming and could point out opportunities for foreshadowing or potential conflicts & plot holes.)
In this way, I got the initial holistic impressions, then got the chapter- and paragraph-level editing as we went along. This worked really well for me. Your mileage may vary.
Dear Novus:
I’m “Professional Copyeditor aka Anonymous.” I’m happy to answer your questions.
1) and 2) Yes, you do want to go through working with a writers’ group first, because that will deal with the big-picture issues. You can go directly to a copyeditor, but then you’ll be paying a great deal more because your work may very well need substantive editing, which takes longer, rather than copyediting. You can find definitions of the levels of editing here. (It’s not my business web site.)
3) Sure, you should ask for references and contact them. But a client list and résumé will tell you about the editor’s background, how long he or she has been in the business, and how many—and which—clients have actually trusted him or her to edit.
4) and 5) If you were looking for a new, expensive car, you’d likely take the time to shop around for the best value and the best warranty. Why would you do any less for the manuscript you’ve sweated over for months or years?
I’m definitely a good sport; I understand just how precious an author’s work is to him or her. That’s why I advise taking extra care in finding the right person to work with. I work both with publishers and directly with authors, and I treat each manuscript with respect, recognizing how much effort went into crafting it. My job isn’t to slash and burn. It’s to point out areas where readers may need more information or where they’re given too much of it, to get rid of wordiness, to point out lapses in logic, to polish the author’s gem until it shines.
The reason authors hire freelance copyeditors is that they know their opus may have weak spots, and they want to maximize their chances of getting a publisher to buy their manuscript. If a publisher thinks it has to work too hard to whip a manuscript into a book that'll sell, it won't bother taking it on.
You know what? Everyone needs an editor—even an editor! Whenever I write for publication, I always have a colleague review my work before I submit it. An editor is a second (or fourth or fifteenth) set of eyes who’ll spot what you can’t see because you’re too close to your work. You know what you meant to write, so you see it on the page even if it’s not there.
And hey, a little wine for both editor and author is a very good thing. Please go have a virtual glass now. It’s on me.
And here I thought "critters" were furry things running across my yard at night and stealing cat food from the bowl on the deck.
One can get critiques, one can pay for editing, but somewhere along the line a writer is going to want to learn how to self-edit. Maybe it's when you get tired of paying for editing. Maybe it's when you're not getting what you need back from your critique group. Maybe it's when you look at what you get back and think, "You know, I think I'm spotting some trends in my writing..." There will always be times you need another pair of eyes, but learning to edit will ultimately make you a better writer.
Or so I'm told. I'm still working on the "better writer" part.
Dear Katharine:
Thank you for educating me; no doubt you're very good at copyediting (I could never do it).
In my case, I'm looking for a review of major issues; plot suspense, tone, proportion, etc. I suspect the correct term is developmental editing (although the site you indicate does not address these specific issues).
Thanks for your kind response and believe me, my cocktail isn't virtual.
chin, chin
Novus, you've defined developmental editing very well. There are freelancers, including me, who do developmental editing. There is a description of the process here.
Writerious, you're absolutely right. The best thing writers can do for themselves is learn how to edit their own work.
SFWA's Writer Beware section has a page about "Book Doctors & Independent Editors" and a few of the things they mention sound like Katharine says (e.g., get a resume, list of what they've worked on, etc.). It's part of Writer Beware, so of course some of it is warnings and cautions...and I haven't really read the whole page, just skimmed it quickly...but just, yanno, another take on it & some advice.
At the rate in which my writing group is moving, it would take two years to complete it!
Precisely! I think we were in the same group. It was so frustrating!
I shopped for a creative ed or copy ed once. No offense to any here, but I just didn't want to pay as much for her services as I did for my car.
I've been happiest working in a circle with two or three writers, but I advise not getting personal with them. Once you do, no one wants to say, "this sucks." They won't be as hard on your writing as you need them to be. Take their advice or leave it, but don't talk back. If they give you a critique and you don't like it, don't ask them to defend their position, because next time they critique, they may not be as honest, and honesty is what you need above all else. If you doubt the wisdom of their words, ask several other people until you get a concensus. By the time you've found enough to ask, you will have figured out the problem and fixed it anyway.
Choose the editor whom you feel will help your writing sound like what you meant to say in the first place.
And preferably, choose an editor who knows the difference between "who" and "whom".
Okay, I know I'm commenting on this waaay after the fact, but I'm reading through all the old Evil Editor posts and just got to this one, and, well... using "whom" incorrectly is one of my pet peeves, so I couldn't let this go without comment. (Doesn't bother me if a writer ignores "whom" and just uses "who"; "whom" is kind of obsolescent anyway. But when a writer uses "whom" when it should be "who", that gets on my nerves, because it seems like a conscious attempt to sound more literate than the writer really is.)
Dear professional freelance copyeditor (who will almost certainly never read this comment made so long after the original post, even if it does get past moderation): Would you say "You feel him will help?" No? Then you shouldn't say "whom you feel will help". It's "who".
Okay, I know I'm possibly being overly harsh here; it's possible that the quoted poster does in fact know perfectly well the difference between "who" and "whom", that that was just a typo, and that the editor would be more careful if actually on the job. But like I said, this is one of my pet peeves, and I couldn't let it pass without comment... especially in a post by someone vaunting her years of experience as a professional copy editor...
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