Why you don't get published.
Thursday, September 21, 2006
New Beginning 121
I sometimes become a hermit on the weekends.
It’s not that I’m anti-social. I like people a lot. Just last Friday night my roommate and I had twelve friends over and we all watched Beauty and the Beast and sang along. I don’t care what anyone says, Beauty and the Beast is perfectly acceptable for a college audience.
It’s just that I’m an introvert (and proud, dammit), and being around people makes me tired. Not sleepy, y’know, but “I’m going to kill someone if I don’t get peace and quiet right now” tired. So the weekends are my time to relax, and try to get some work done. Although, I admit it, sometimes not so much with the getting work done thing. I blame… uh… Neil for that. Yeah, I’ll blame Neil. He’s not here to defend himself, anyway, and he does have an annoying tendency to show up right when I’m about to get some Latin translated to try to drag me out of exile.
But I like my exile. I like my introvertedness and my hermitness. I could talk about them - and myself - until I'm hoarse. I love my own company, and that of anyone who wants to listen to me. Or even just look at me. But don't bother me, that's all I ask. Because, as you can tell, I'm really a quiet sort, given to classical pursuits.
Maybe I just like the word "introvert." Introvert. It sounds, y'know, classy. It's from Latin. I suppose you could call me an adolatent, an adolescent late into the time when I should be a grown-up.
So anyway, today Neil knocks at my door. He has that big dumb Neil grin, and he's holding a copy of Cinderella in one hand, Bambi in the other. I look at my Latin homework, consider kicking his ass for interrupting me yet again.
But I can't deny my inner longings.
It's party time, Disney style.
Continuation: Kate Thornton, Sarah
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45 comments:
Actually, I like this beginning. It's a bit quirky, and I can so relate to the narrator. The flow is wonderful, very natural for an inner dialogue. I want to read more!
yawn
Is there something here that I should be interested in? Or is this just like listening to my self-absorbed friends who think their daily verbal diarrhea is interesting to everyone, not just themselves? I get enough of that from people I know every day. I don't really want to read it, too.
No. The voice might be interesting, once it has something to talk about, but this is just nothing. These paragraphs might work later, but not as the opening.
he does have an annoying tendency to show up right when I’m about to get some Latin translated to try to drag me out of exile.
Translating Latin is dragging the protag out of exile?
Hey, this is the second "New Beginning 120"! Or do my eyes deceive me?
Nice voice, but get to the point already. I think that's what the continuation is trying to tell you.
The only way I see college kids watching "Beauty and the Beast" is if they're high--VERY high. Unless your main characters is a genius kid like Doogie Howser. In which case, say so already.
Yawn and yawn. I can't imagine anyone being fascinated by a college student discussing what it's like being an introvert, and there is no suggestion of any further plot coming our way. Plus it's all been said much more concisely before: "it's not that I don't like people, I just feel better when they're not around."
Woo-hoo! Introverts unite! (Separately, of course, and in private.)
Love the continuation, makes me laugh at my own hermit-ish tendencies.
verification: gvlstah
Sounds like a hefty warrior princess, or maybe a new kind of bean dip.
The continuation started out perfect ("I love my own company, and that of anyone who wants to listen to me"), but weakened a bit toward the end. It started to get a semblance of a plot; that wasn't in the style of the opening. ;)
As for the original: hated it. A little bit of this style would have been fine, but we're living too long inside the head of a person who has show us absolutely no reason to care what he thinks.
I blame... uh... Neal for that. Yeah, I'll blame Neil.
"... uh..." indeed.
Author, you know how to put sentences together in a believable conversational style. Now you just need a plot. If you've got one several pages on, consider introducing it now. As is, it reads like chatty, self-absorbed email. I can read chatty, self-absorbed email without buying a book. As an art teacher once told me, "Don't draw what it is, draw what it's doing."
Hawkowl, are you a Devil Dogs fan?
I relate to the narrator, but I did find this a bit dull. It would have been better to have someone show up at the door and start bugging the narrator. Then we can find out about the introvert stuff.
If the book had an interesting plot I'd keep reading, though.
You guys pick on me when I say too many words...
But, here goes - too many words!
For instance:
"Just last Friday night my roommate and I had twelve friends over and we all watched Beauty and the Beast and sang along. I don’t care what anyone says, Beauty and the Beast is perfectly acceptable for a college audience."
Might be:
"Just last Friday night my roommate and I had twelve college buddies over and we all watched Beauty and the Beast and sang along. Great Fun!"
And you don't have to have to break the flow of the introvertedness by breaking the proscenium (and talking to the reader).
Also try:
"It’s just that I’m an introvert (and proud, dammit), and being around people makes me tired. Not sleepy, y’know, but “I’m going to kill someone if I don’t get peace and quiet right now” tired. "
To this:
"I'm a contented introvert; people tire me out. They get me crazy like 'I’m going to kill someone if I don’t get peace and quiet right now'"
BTW - I know what this guy feels like. Half my family loves mindless chatter and can't understand why I am so quiet and like to write ALONE!!!!
;)
Dear ekobwbhc,
think of the challenge of writing a character who exemplifies this:
"Or is this just like listening to my self-absorbed friends who think their daily verbal diarrhea is interesting to everyone, not just themselves?"
he does have an annoying tendency to show up right when I’m about to get some Latin translated to try to drag me out of exile.
anonymous:
Translating Latin is dragging the protag out of exile?
Maybe this would make a lot more sense if the wording was rearranged a bit:
"...he does have an annoying tendency to show up, trying to drag me out of exile, right when I'm about to get some Latin translated."
Yes, Dave, it does seem it would be a challenge to write such a character... in an interesting and believable way. The real problem is that I have no interest in reading something simply because it was a difficult challenge for the writer. I have interest in reading things that are, well, interesting. And this to me was not at all interesting.
We're inside the head of an introvert (warning! first-person navel-gazing alert!). Who enjoys translating Latin (warning! super-boring, academic subject alert!). Who is self-righteous about watching fluffy, little-girl Disney flicks (warning! whiner alert!). Who talks like a high school sophomore cheerleader (warning! cotton-candy blather alert!).
You know, my guess is that this was not one tiny little bit difficult for the author to write. I am guessing the author is the narrator, and s/he took someone's advice to "write like you talk."
Maybe college kids who like Beauty And The Beast and who enjoy translating dead languages would get into this book. Maybe it gets better. Maybe this character gets killed on page 3. But given this opening, I'd put it down and pick up another book. Any book. Even a Berenstein Bears or something.
the continuation is awesome. Totally gets the tone and voice.
I think the opening is interesting enough. I just hope you get to the conflict soon!
I'm a third-year college student, and I love old-school Disney. So all you people out there who think this author doesn't know what she's talking about... Not everyone prefers American Pie over Beauty and the Beast.
I like the writing style; the author has a great conversational voice and the narrator comes off as amiable (albeit introverted). I'd love to see what this writer could do with a plot. ;)
Beauty and the Beast "old school Disney"? Yikes.
Beauty and the Beast came out when I was in college. It is hardly old school.
Or am I just old and everyone knows it but me?
Word veri: gcuhcgj (the sound my dentures make when my ensure nutritional drink dissolves the denture glue and the dentures get caught in my throat)
December Quinn - I've never heard of Devil Dogs. Is that the source of the quote? I just know it because my ex used to quote it all the time.
he does have an annoying tendency to show up right when I’m about to get some Latin translated to try to drag me out of exile.
anonymous:
Translating Latin is dragging the protag out of exile?
Oops. Thanks for pointing that out!
Thanks for the comments, everyone. Immediately after this Neil shows up and starts bugging her (so I guess I'm predictable -- great continuation, by the way! Heheheh). I gather from the comments that it would be better if I just started there. Am I right?
(For the record, she's quirky, self-absorbed, and doesn't give a fig what anyone thinks -- I'm glad you all got that she's self-absorbed, but is that coming across too strongly? I don't want to destroy any interest the reader might have by making her too annoying).
Again, thanks for all the help. Special thanks to those who complimented the voice (and to gerri)!
I have no interest in reading about my weekend!
I meant old-school as in not Pixar/digital and not Pirates. Heh.
Author--Yes, I think it would be better if you started with Neil bugging her. You can add in what you have already written as side comments and background information as the plot unfolds. And don't forget--show, don't tell. Show us how she's an introvert, how she gets tired around people, how she'd rather be translating Virgil (Cicero, Livy?).
I'm a third-year college student, and I love old-school Disney. So all you people out there who think this author doesn't know what she's talking about... Not everyone prefers American Pie over Beauty and the Beast.
Yay, these are the future leaders of the world. My college-aged sister loves "old-school" Disney movies too, so I guess that generation is just really, really immature. That's it, I'm cashing in my 401K.
Actually, I think "she" sounds like she cares a great deal about what other people think - specifically, about making sure that people think she's "quirky." I wouldn't have guessed she was a she, though. Although it kind of explains the perky look-at-me-ness of it.
bhshe - the next fashionable way to pronounce "biyatch"?
This reminds me of the Buffy dialogue that veers too hard into being "high school" or "college".
Paragraphs 1 and 3 drag down Paragraph 2. I like Paragraph 2 pretty well. It characterizes and hints at a plot where someone's antisocial bubble will be pricked.
That said, though, this story is not going anywhere yet.
I think "she"
Sorry. Her name is Amy. Obviously you wouldn't know that as the name isn't in the first 150 words (me stupid author).
Also, interesting point. That might be a mistake on my part. I was trying to make her seem quirky but not as if she cares she's quirky (and not as if she'd ever think of herself using that word). Maybe I was trying too hard.
Thanks!
A question for anyone who knows about such things: since Latin is such a big obsession for her, I was planning on using a few quotes from Roman authors, probably Cicero, Virgil, Martial, and Catullus, at the beginnings of chapters. Since the Latin is 2000 years old I certainly hope it's in the public domain. If I included my own translation instead of a published one there wouldn't have any copyright issues, would there?
"Yay, these are the future leaders of the world. My college-aged sister loves "old-school" Disney movies too, so I guess that generation is just really, really immature. That's it, I'm cashing in my 401K."
You're right. Shame on us for prefering innocent love stories and cheesey songs to affairs, drugs, violence, and profanity! Immaturity is in the eye of the beholder. Alas that there are people out there who are so jaded that they can't enjoy a Disney movie any more.
Hawkowl-- You don't think the narrator sounds like a girl? Huh. Sounded very girly to me. Maybe because I can relate to the narrator. Also, "bhshe" definitely screams anime term to me--a very feminine male character. ;)
Author, there shouldn't be a problem with providing your own translation of the Latin. Just credit the original author and the work it came from. Interesting idea, too. I'm not sure how readers will take it, especially considering your target audience (college students, probably?). Nevertheless, it fits with the narrator for sure.
I think you're pretty safe on the copyright.
Good luck with this.
Dave,
Don't ever beta read for me. I'd rant and rave for hours over the changes you made. Basically, what you did is totally destroy the quirkiness and the tone of the story. Yes, yours is shorter. Shorter doesn't always equal better. You've changed the character's voice, the character's attitude, basically, everything. In effect, you just yanked the teeth right out of this story and made it into one of the overpolished pieces that would make me gag.
See, this is exactly why I HATE prose nitpickers. Too many of them are thinking "words" and miss tone, character attitude, voice, and a whole host of other things that make prose memorable. They put all this work into it, and then they get mad at the writer when the writer vehemently rejects their critique. Hello, prose nitpickers! You screwed up!
Don't rewrite someone's prose or dialogue, folks, unless they SPECIFICALLY ask for help in sentence structure or it's obvious they have minimal to no grasp on the basics of grammar.
Ye gads.
And for those who complain conflict is absent? Neil is in the second paragraph. And the whole thing buzzes of "me against those who want to make me social against my will." Conflict hits from sentence one.
So many people on here are complaining about how the writer is just going to whine about being introverted. Hello? Anyone read chick lit? This is chick lit for the introverted. About friggin time someone pays attention to the geeks in the world.
And no, I'm not the author.
This opening probably breaks all the rules, but I like it. I like the character so far.
Lose the "sometimes" in the first sentence. Doesn't matter that it's not 100% accurate without it.
Don't know how soon before I get tired of it, so something better happen soon (and better be more than another Disney video!--LOL at the continuation).
I'd keep reading for now.
We're inside the head of an introvert (warning! first-person navel-gazing alert!). Who enjoys translating Latin (warning! super-boring, academic subject alert!). Who is self-righteous about watching fluffy, little-girl Disney flicks (warning! whiner alert!). Who talks like a high school sophomore cheerleader (warning! cotton-candy blather alert!).
OMG, ROTFLMAO.
So funny. I love your critique style.
The voice is good, but I feel that it's going around in circles.
My college roommates and I were always watching Disney movies back in the day. They were great "comfort food." (The guys across the hall usually joined in too - though we had to put up with a lot of comments about how hot Ariel's seashells were in The Little Mermaid when they were around.)
So, I didn't see anything abnormal about the behavior. Whether that's the best thing to open a book with, I don't know.
Dear Gerri,
That's OK by me. I only make suggestions and I will never be disturbed if the author wishes to ignore my comments for any reason they find suitable.
Dave
Holy shit. Someone needs a Midol in a hurry.
Regarding the Disney movie... I am not sure too many people actually had a problem with college kids watching a Disney movie. When I was in college, we watched Buckaroo Banzai too often along with Cheers, Taxi, and even late night reruns of Big Valley.
What bugs me is that she's watching it, but she's embarrassed to be watching it, but she's self-righteous about it. That's actually good characterization there, and it's done succinctly, but it's not a character I have any patience with. Already I'm rolling my eyes and thinking that I'm going to spend 300 pages rolling my eyes.
Do you know how hard it is to read 300 pages with your eyes rolling every few words? It's exhausting!
Don't rewrite someone's prose or dialogue, folks, unless they SPECIFICALLY ask for help in sentence structure or it's obvious they have minimal to no grasp on the basics of grammar.
It's not like he went into the author's hard drive and erased the original version, you know. He just made a suggestion, one which the author can use or ignore.
My CP offers suggestions for different sentence phrasings all the time...that's part of what a critique is.
Hawkowl, it came from the Mickey Rourke movie Barfly, but the Devil Dogs made it a whole (awesome) song. The song isn't about the movie, it just uses the line.
I believe the point of submitting your work is so Evil Editor and his faithful minions can have a go at it.
If I ever get up the courage to submit I'll be expecting (hoping for?) people to try to rewrite my prose and dialogue if they think it doesn't work. I may not agree with them. I may spend days fuming about what they suggested I do to my baby. But in the end I'll appreciate the alternate viewpoint and try to garner a few ideas from it, if I don't cut and paste it directly into my story.
Keep the editing sword sharp, Dave.
Hawkowl,
I love it when people make ad hominem attacks. Because, of course, "that time of the month" is somehow directly tied to the issue of writing with voice and critiquing.
NOT.
Attack the ideas, not the person, and you get respect. If you mistake passion for hormones, then that's a YOU problem, not a me problem.
There are times and places in critiques to rewrite sentences for examples to the author. If the author struggles with grammar, or makes a consistant mistake in attribution, then yes, show them. If the author has awkward prose then showing them a better flow can be helpful.
But show them ONE SENTENCE/SECTION. Don't rewrite the whole darn thing!
The real issue here is voice. This author has voice. I could pick up any piece of this author's writing and know whose book I'm reading. Dave's rewrite stripped the voice from this piece, which is the reason I posted my protest earlier.
Ya can't buy voice, folks. Ya either got it or you don't, or you learn to fake it. Voice can't be taught. I'd know Steven King from Issac Asimov from Tamera Silar Jones from Anne Rice from Nora Roberts from J. K. Rowling from Laura Kinsdale. They all have distinctive writing that sets them apart from other writers.
Voice is what drags agents, editors, and readers through stories, that allows a few typos to be ignored, that allows a few awkwardnesses to be forgiven. Voice compels.
Critiquers should be encouraging voice, not rewriting to meet some kind of ideal.
This piece, with one minor exception, didn't have anything wrong with grammar, attribution, or sentence structure problems. The one problem, Anonymous 1 handled correctly--point it out and let the author handle the fixing. If Dave had said that the piece was too wordy and needed tightening up a bit, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Critiquing voice issues make me passionate because I've had people try to critique my voice out of my writing, and it drives me NUTS. My prose style is deliberately distinctive. If there's a problem with my story, tell me. If there's an awkward sentence, tell me. Don't fix it. Let ME fix it. I'm the one with the voice.
TBH, voice critiquing issue is why I don't put my stuff up for critique any more. My prose isn't the problem. I need to know if the story works, but too many times, all I get back is prose things or "I don't know what to say." *headdesk* Doesn't do me any good.
I think getting insufficient return critiques is why writers who reach a certain level withdraw from the public forums. That's what many of my friends have said, and that's why I withdrew.
Something to think about for all of us.
Gerri, I hear you. I used to go ballistic when helpful critiquers rewrote my perfectly good sentences to sound more as if they themselves had written them. Now I just think it's funny. One hopes the author has a sense of perspective and humor. I'm sure the critique in question was meant to be helpful, but it made me grit my teeth, too.
Thanks again for all the comments, everyone! I will consider them all carefully.
Gerri, I'm glad you liked the voice so much. It gives me heart.
Cheers, everyone,
Lucia
In general, I'm with Gerri on the issue of critiquers rewriting prose. Some writers don't mind it, but others (like me) would prefer to be told not shown.
OTOH, this blog is not a formal critiquing situation; anyone putting their writing on display here had better expect just about anything and no point getting mad about it.
Hehehe. I got moderated. :)
Moderate version: if you're on a big rant about "voice," should you really be surprised if I comment on your angry snarling "voice"?
Hawkowl,
There's a Pacific Ocean sized difference between saying, "wow, you sound angry" and accusing me of being PMSy. One is a take it from the tone. The other one is an unacceptable false attribution to a particularly vile feminine stereotype that is the catch-all excuse men have for any woman who is passionate about a topic. Oh, you're passionate, and therefore, you're angry, and if you're angry, you must have PMS. Not only is that the worst kind of false attribution, but it's a vile attack on character--in this case, my character. Double fallacies do not make a truth.
What's worse about your attack on my character is that you implied that I am irrational, that I have no logic or reasoning behind my thought patterns except hormone-driven incoherency. Nothing could be further from the truth, but by your accusation, you belittled anything I would say, trying to make it seem that I'm just another silly female. In turn, by poisoning that well, you try to get other people to ignore what I say because I'm supposedly irrational. Hey, look, another fallacy! How many can you pack into one statement?
I thought the writing culture had grown up beyond the stupidity of stereotyping. Evidently, not all of it has. How disgusting.
The first rule of argument, bud, is to attack the information, not the person. Learn it, know it, love it, or you'll be out in the cold when it comes down to gaining respect.
I don't know Dave. I rather suspect he's a well-meaning guy. I wasn't disperaging his character, merely how he handled his review of this piece. Learn the difference, Hawkowl.
LOL You're putting way too much work into this. However as to "no personalities," it's a rule of order. Arguments have no rules. "Learn the difference."
That being said, there are no rules of order here, nor am I arguing with you, nor am I talking about your theories at all, whatever they may be, 'cause I don't even have any idea what you were talking about. In order to make out any meaning from your "voice" I'd have had to read it more times than it was worth. What I commented on was your tone. "Learn the difference."
Hey, now I think about it, don't I know you from somewhere else? Somewhere where you came unglued on me because I said of Orson Scott Card "all that and he writes novels, too - what a guy!" Hahaha. That explains a lot of things. LOL
Hawkowl,
Ah, it's you. Seems you haven't changed a bit, either. And that's not a good thing.
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