tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post926579440562769007..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: New Beginning 678Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-85972757132397285432009-08-29T19:57:41.831-04:002009-08-29T19:57:41.831-04:00Anon 8:21, there is nothing in my comment that is ...Anon 8:21, there is nothing in my comment that is PC. It is about manners and how to act in a public forum. You appear to enjoy personal attacks, yet you hide behind anonymous. Sign your name so your comments can be attributed to you. Complete a profile so people can know who you are and write directly to you. There are words to describe someone who hides and attacks others. I'll let you pick the one you prefer.<br /><br />As for PC, few contributors to this blog have had as much criticism aimed at them for not being PC as I have. Check some of the comments about my African-American dialect, slave raids against American Indians, Spanish colonial policy, and common vices in early New Mexico. Oh, yes, a young woman's curiousity about a sex club is hardly PC (New Beginning 673).Weshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077791761104576436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-24587208215437823312009-08-29T16:47:52.992-04:002009-08-29T16:47:52.992-04:00Good :).Good :).nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-42007277680281825412009-08-29T13:50:35.848-04:002009-08-29T13:50:35.848-04:00It's not like I'll be rewriting too much; ...It's not like I'll be rewriting too much; I had a general idea and and a beginning to the story. I was hoping putting it here would give my story a boost, and it did._*rachel*_https://www.blogger.com/profile/03293167107180931700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-26690772404581478792009-08-29T08:07:50.474-04:002009-08-29T08:07:50.474-04:00I don't think rewriting this on the fly to ple...I don't think rewriting this on the fly to please the minions is the best approach. Take it away, mull over what's been said, then rewrite in your own time.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-21863179904324853682009-08-28T21:57:35.362-04:002009-08-28T21:57:35.362-04:00I should have added to my previous comment:
Why n...I should have added to my previous comment:<br /><br />Why not start with a character, doing something interesting?Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504439129670380071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-30077726518464916672009-08-28T21:48:53.632-04:002009-08-28T21:48:53.632-04:00I lost track of all the ups and downs and number o...I lost track of all the ups and downs and number of people in the elevator. It was like one of those word problems in a math textbook, which I always stank at. And then the geometry problem with steps 60 degrees from horizontal...In fact, I began to wonder if this opening was one of EE's little jokes.<br /><br />Sorry.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504439129670380071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-37691341276264505432009-08-28T20:21:52.403-04:002009-08-28T20:21:52.403-04:00Right on, Aimee. Let's be civil, folks. People...<i>Right on, Aimee. Let's be civil, folks. People are trying. Give them the courtesy of constructive criticism.</i><br /><br />One more PC comment like that & you'll surely (& painfully) be stripped of your minionhood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-22569386631322950672009-08-28T13:26:07.272-04:002009-08-28T13:26:07.272-04:00So, there's an illegal meeting on the third fl...<i>So, there's an illegal meeting on the third floor--which was also my inspiration. Hot, humid, unused, with brick walls and old shelves and creaky floors. Aliya's part of the meeting, and John's part of the police ambush.</i><br /><br />This clearly describes your scene. Use it as an outline.<br /><br />One paragraph telling what the conspiracy is. Meeting peacefully is still legal. One paragraph describing the hot, humid, oppressive third floor. One or two describing Aliya and hinting at how she came to be involved. One or two describing John and how he knows Aliya is his man (so to speak).<br /><br />I liked the bells. I would have them ring as Aliya is outside, approaching the building to tie them together emotionally. Don’t say for whom the bells toll, but let your readers think it.<br /><br />Keep at this until you get a version you’re happy with.<br /><br />Joel G.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-32576968952193344412009-08-28T00:11:34.223-04:002009-08-28T00:11:34.223-04:00The problems with the original have been beaten to...The problems with the original have been beaten to death. (I saw this earlier, just failed to comment at the time.)<br /><br />The rewrite makes it better for me, but maybe can we have a bit more about John? Is he cool and detached? Cool and engaged? Worried? Skittish? Etc? The rewrite made the place have value, and you don't necessarily need the tintinnabulation (another word I couldn't refuse to use. This week has been great for that.)Xiexiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265895952183646895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-71465840694787695292009-08-27T23:38:56.378-04:002009-08-27T23:38:56.378-04:00"The elevator in the Agricultural Administrat..."The elevator in the Agricultural Administration Building carried a man and two women from the first floor to the third floor, sank to the second floor, and carried three men down to the first floor, where they clattered down a half-flight of steps and out the door."<br /><br />While this idea nice, combined with the paragraph that follows, it's too much. Choose one, delete the other. <br /><br /><br />"Two laughing young men jogged up the main stairway and disappeared behind a rarely-used door. Though nobody used the steps behind—they were 60 degrees from the horizontal—nobody had thought to turn the lock."<br /><br />I'd stop reading hear. It's well written but you've crossed that fine line of scene building into TMI. If the door is rarely used you can trust you're reader to understand the steps leading too them are rarely used too. I don't know what 60 degrees from the horizontal has to do with the door being rarely used. The way the sentence is worded, it sounds like the door isn't used because of the stairs. If that's the case start with the stairs. <br /><br />"The air conditioning hummed and thrummed overhead as people locked their doors and walked past the unsightly demolition of St. Thomas Aquinas to the parking garage across the street."<br /><br />Pruning shears please. <br /><br />"The bell tower finished chiming its melodies and left the air silent and humid as before."<br /><br />This misses the mark because bells can't change the temperature and over written. chiming and melodies are both sound words. You only need one. I think you mean.<br /><br />The bell tower finished chiming and then all was silent. Despite the late hour the air was still humid. <br /><br />" The only people she could hear left in the building were the janitors; she left the machine for the elevator."<br /><br />This sentence again misses it's mark as well. The words "hear left" are wrong. You only need one. If the only people left are Janitors, then those are the only people she can hear in the building. This sentence implies she can hear other people in the building even though they're not there. <br /><br />But because of the way time is established, all you really need here is" She could hear the janitors (I'd add an action like mopping as well)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-73014883064581774582009-08-27T23:18:55.884-04:002009-08-27T23:18:55.884-04:00I understand your relutance. I had single flutter...I understand your relutance. I had single fluttering candle. . . <br /><br />and two entire chapters, which in my opinion was some of the best writing I ever did. I tried fifty ways to fit it into my manuscript. I probably spent at least a month trying, if not more . . . and eventually had to scrap it. <br /><br />Those two chapters was a huge part of my inspiration. <br /><br />Eventually a friend said to me, and I hope this helps you as well, "they served their purpose."<br /><br />I have no problem killing off characters, however. I guess I don't care much about them after they grow-up. <br /><br />vkwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-85725450214829081772009-08-27T22:20:04.055-04:002009-08-27T22:20:04.055-04:00The reason I'm reluctant to get rid of the bel...<i>The reason I'm reluctant to get rid of the bells it that they were my inspiration.</i><br /><br />Wait until you have to kill off a character. That's even harder. <br /><br />The bells have done their job. They helped you start the story and get the ideas down. Now write what is good for the story and set aside what were wonderful, helpful words that you came to love.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-80310761693279977962009-08-27T21:35:33.608-04:002009-08-27T21:35:33.608-04:00The John beginning is much better.
I agree about ...The John beginning is much better.<br /><br />I agree about the building being totally empty - when I was at university, especially in my last year, I was often there till 5.30, 6pm, sometimes 9pm (in the library). And when I've had office jobs, there's ALWAYS been a few people around late. I've gone in at 8pm on a Friday to pick up something I left at work; and found people still finishing off their week's work, etc, or managers trying to get their caseload done, etc.<br /><br />Also: nice picture, Aimee! :DRuth (Book Focus)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06211262861068620446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-23023064464393935002009-08-27T20:49:44.135-04:002009-08-27T20:49:44.135-04:00The reason I'm reluctant to get rid of the bel...The reason I'm reluctant to get rid of the bells it that they were my inspiration.<br /><br />So, there's an illegal meeting on the third floor--which was also my inspiration. Hot, humid, unused, with brick walls and old shelves and creaky floors. Aliya's part of the meeting, and John's part of the police ambush. We'll see how it goes.<br /><br />Perhaps the place is some of the problem. I'm starting to remind myself of Melville, taking chapters off the plot to explain whale blubber in intimate detail. Perhaps I'll stick to fantasy, instead of dystopias in recognizable places._*rachel*_https://www.blogger.com/profile/03293167107180931700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-21734112360846274462009-08-27T19:35:55.358-04:002009-08-27T19:35:55.358-04:00Oh man. NOW I get it. He's in another room and...Oh man. NOW I get it. He's in another room and not on the elevator...Okay.<br /><br />I own my beer-ness, but I wasn't able to discern that.Mamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853842158606222286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-40364141597882380592009-08-27T17:13:45.236-04:002009-08-27T17:13:45.236-04:00Okay well now I have no idea what this story is ab...Okay well now I have no idea what this story is about. I thought it was going to be connected to the church and bells - somehow. Now along comes John and a gun. <br /><br />I have nothing to add except I "brave" the cold and "endure" the heat - but to each their own. <br /><br />vkwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-42032603685062139582009-08-27T16:39:26.775-04:002009-08-27T16:39:26.775-04:00Rachel
Ask yourself what needs to happen in this ...Rachel<br /><br />Ask yourself what needs to happen in this scene. I think this is what you are going for:<br /><br />John is hiding in a room across from the elevator with his gun.<br /><br />The elevator stops. A man and a woman exit.<br /><br />John is not waiting for a man and a woman.<br /><br />The couple enter a room and close the door behind them.<br /><br />John wishes her were elsewhere.<br /><br />The elevator stops again.<br /><br />Now write the boring version with all of the facts in it. Then add the atmosphere, the church bells and people leaving, where it would fit in best.<br /><br />Joel G.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-71139490397138131382009-08-27T15:40:09.302-04:002009-08-27T15:40:09.302-04:00What do you think of this:
The bells of Thomas Aqu...What do you think of this:<br /><i>The bells of Thomas Aquinas Church echoed into the lobby of the Agriculture Building. It was quitting time as professors, secretaries and grad students dashed from the elevators, out the doors and braved the persistent working girl's shower. John Smith ducked into the building against the crowd. Only people on the third floor entered at this hour. Everyone else left. John Smith checked his holster when the elevator doors closed. </i>Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-56739624492572420572009-08-27T15:25:37.361-04:002009-08-27T15:25:37.361-04:00Rachel, all of your rewrites are focused on keepin...Rachel, all of your rewrites are focused on keeping this "people are going to the third floor" thing. Why have you identified that as the right place to begin the story? I'm not saying it isn't the place, but it's unclear to those of us in the dark about why it is. Obviously, there's something happening on the third floor. Is the goal to get us intrigued about why everyone is headed there? If so, taking more time with this might work. Right now we have random people going to a third floor. Maybe we need specific, interesting people going there.<br /><br />Actually, your latest rewrite has this happening somewhat, since it now focuses on John. I think you can expand out this same material. I'm not sure if John is a detective, a mob hit man, a student with a gun, etc. I don't mean you need to info dump on us. It's just that the POV is not developed.<br /><br />Finally, I can't help but comment on the 5:00 PM thing. As you've done in the latest rewrite, you certainly need to tell us what usually happens at 5:00 PM. For me, I'm a grad student again, and, while, yes, all the admins close there offices and leave between 4:30 and 5:00, I'm routinely coming back to the lab at 9:00 PM and stay until midnight or so. It's certainly quieter, but there's typically someone else around. If someone came into a university building at 5:00 PM, I don't read, "suspense." I read, "student without kids is going to do some statistical analysis." Anyway, the point is just that we all have different expectations on this, and you'll need to help set them appropriately.pacatruehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04125048243775811714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-76352588901972436182009-08-27T15:02:09.894-04:002009-08-27T15:02:09.894-04:00Can you tell I totally chucked my daily writing an...Can you tell I totally chucked my daily writing and comma classes out the window for cold beers and commenting? I can.<br /><br />NEXT!Mamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853842158606222286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-56505901315849275612009-08-27T14:38:37.133-04:002009-08-27T14:38:37.133-04:00"The offices below would be emptying as profe..."The offices below would be emptying as professors, secretaries, and grad students braved the muggy summer air on their quests for air-conditioned cars and homes."<br /><br />Pay attention to being repetitive. Reading "air" twice in one sentence is bunk.<br /><br />"..braved the summer heat in their quest for air-conditioned.."Mamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853842158606222286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-89550751331650049682009-08-27T14:32:08.182-04:002009-08-27T14:32:08.182-04:00"John let out a quiet breath and pressed his ..."John let out a quiet breath and pressed his ear to the door. Two sets of feet: one heavy, one light.<br /><br />The elevator doors closed as, very faintly through the brick walls, the bell tower chimed five o’clock."<br /><br />He can't press his ears to open doors. Relax. Think about this for a couple days, then try again.Mamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853842158606222286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-47410959583005187302009-08-27T14:24:02.260-04:002009-08-27T14:24:02.260-04:00I think in certain books there IS room for info du...I think in certain books there IS room for info dump, if you employ a situation that has the potential for drastically bad results in the best economy of words.<br /><br />I HATE doing this lest if come back to bite me in the arse somehow later, but read the first page of 'Finger Lickin Fifteen'. Some will say that, "Yeah, it's a published author. She can get away with that."<br /><br />Pity poor if that's true. It seemed rather contrived with rabid bats and a hamster chucked in with all that info. I think it has more to do with how well you can slap people in the face rather quickly.Mamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04853842158606222286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-67808290040569859372009-08-27T14:02:38.718-04:002009-08-27T14:02:38.718-04:00The elevator dinged: third floor. John let out a q...The elevator dinged: third floor. John let out a quiet breath and pressed his ear to the door. Two sets of feet: one heavy, one light.<br /><br />The elevator doors closed as, very faintly through the brick walls, the bell tower chimed five o’clock. The offices below would be emptying as professors, secretaries, and grad students braved the muggy summer air on their quests for air-conditioned cars and homes.<br /><br />No such luck for John. He patted the holster by his side for good luck and waited.<br /><br />The elevator dinged again: third floor._*rachel*_https://www.blogger.com/profile/03293167107180931700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-55519821865356595372009-08-27T13:27:36.694-04:002009-08-27T13:27:36.694-04:001] After the first few lines re elevator passenger...1] After the first few lines re elevator passengers, my biggest question was so what, who cares? I skimmed along in search of a main character who did. Did not find one. Which is why the furniture-as-characters continuation is so brilliant. <br />2] It reads like set-up for logic questions in the exams you take to get into grad school, law school, etc. <br />3] I'm thinking this kind of description is caused by too much emphasis on "show not tell." Ultimately the author always tells the story, does she not? As far as scenery with no main character goes, it would probably be more successful to just succinctly tell us what we need to know and move on. Readerly attention is normally best gripped by starting with a main character doing something fascinating. You might want to try that and get to elevators and bells later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com