tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post7527680154888558270..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: Face-Lift 565Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-60617379324476012152008-09-22T20:19:00.000-04:002008-09-22T20:19:00.000-04:00batgirl said... A bit late and a minor point, but ...batgirl said... <BR/>A bit late and a minor point, but the term 'clone of our Earth' bothers me. Clone does have a specific meaning, and I'm fairly sure inorganic things (rocks, magma) don't clone that well.<BR/>What about that old standy 'alternate Earth'?<BR/><BR/>It isn't an alternate Earth... which also has special meaning in Sci-Fi... but a perhaps a 100% Earth Normal planet. The make up of the land masses are different but the precentage of land to wanter gravity and everything else is the same as Earth. <BR/><BR/>They quickly realize that they they are millions of light years from Earth, but the planet is normal. So, you're right, I shouldn't say clone... but I'll have to think of a new word.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-44965612450283282562008-09-22T16:30:00.000-04:002008-09-22T16:30:00.000-04:00A bit late and a minor point, but the term 'clone ...A bit late and a minor point, but the term 'clone of our Earth' bothers me. Clone does have a specific meaning, and I'm fairly sure inorganic things (rocks, magma) don't clone that well.<BR/>What about that old standy 'alternate Earth'? <BR/>-Barbarabatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15143310557906978680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-11219547895192663822008-09-21T01:05:00.000-04:002008-09-21T01:05:00.000-04:00and add this one in...if anyone is gonna be seeing...and add this one in...if anyone is gonna be seeing that inlay, I plan on it being me.<BR/><BR/>Pfffft.<BR/><BR/>(I haven't decided on that kneeling part yet.)<BR/><BR/>The only way you can properly caress it is by kneeling. Unless you have very tactile toes, of course.Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-38957564940748290582008-09-19T13:54:00.000-04:002008-09-19T13:54:00.000-04:00I just read through this. 73 comments. All of 'em....I just read through this. 73 comments. All of 'em. And I stand by my initial comment, and add this one in...if anyone is gonna be seeing that inlay, I plan on it being me.<BR/><BR/>(I haven't decided on that kneeling part yet.)Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-55410485412676872362008-09-18T13:06:00.000-04:002008-09-18T13:06:00.000-04:00150 said:I do like your idea for the title, it has...150 said:<BR/><BR/>I do like your idea for the title, it has depth. Ultimately, I'll let the publisher pick one.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-26345575166944827772008-09-18T12:21:00.000-04:002008-09-18T12:21:00.000-04:00"So goes my dream of kneeling on that inlay, cares..."So goes my dream of kneeling on that inlay, caressing the wood."<BR/><BR/>Tries not to catch Robin's eye.<BR/><BR/>Sheesh, can you tell how boring my life is? I didn't even think about that.<BR/><BR/>Tal, I don't know about EE's neighbors, but I would love to see dancing moles.Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-78747752136025140382008-09-18T11:11:00.000-04:002008-09-18T11:11:00.000-04:00Frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on query let...Frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on query letters. However, I'm alway happy to give my never humble opinion about someone else's work<BR/><BR/>I do have to warn you that I try to be as frank as I want my beta readers to be. I never find things like, "great, I couldn't stop reading" helpful.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-62535438848980645962008-09-18T10:58:00.000-04:002008-09-18T10:58:00.000-04:00Make the title "Freeworlders." Seriously.Make the title "Freeworlders." Seriously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-30216087536255037052008-09-17T21:30:00.000-04:002008-09-17T21:30:00.000-04:00This post has a lot of comments.I have been thinki...This post has a lot of comments.<BR/><BR/>I have been thinking about the idea of research vs pratical experience. <BR/><BR/>I'm reminded of a book I read late last year, a sequel to a very popular fantasy novel, where the main characters spend half the book at sea, on a sailing ship. The problem is, this part doesn't ring true. (And there is a note by the author in the back of the book apologising for this.).<BR/><BR/>Now, I don't have much experience with tall ships myself, about 6 months hands on and too many reference books, but that's enough for me to wonder why anyone would try to write about them with no experience. Some authors are able to create that ring of truth with mostly book learning. (Sometimes because the writers knows just a bit more than the typical reader, which is sufficient to get away with {g}.) I reckon real life experience is the best way to add verisimilitude, assuming you have the skills to make use of it, instead of falling back on cliches.<BR/><BR/>For that matter, visiting, doing, touching, seeing the real thing is always better than just reading books.<BR/><BR/>And on that subject, I could have done with some feedback from you Reb for my current WIP.Xenithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15550985137843901009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-50622082270157103662008-09-17T21:10:00.000-04:002008-09-17T21:10:00.000-04:00Now that you've unconfused me...In my opinion, whe...Now that you've unconfused me...<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, when it comes to commercial fiction, servicable prose + good storytelling is what you want. If you look at most popular authors, that's what you'll find. Servicable prose doesn't draw attention to itself but acts as the vehicle for the good story telling, and it's the story telling that brings readers back. (Now, some of them have good prose AND good storytelling but I do think they're the minority.)Xenithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15550985137843901009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-86278791882536975802008-09-17T20:52:00.000-04:002008-09-17T20:52:00.000-04:00Talk about coming in late to the party... Oh well,...Talk about coming in late to the party... Oh well, Reb, if you're still reading these comments:<BR/><BR/>Someone else noted that your first explanation of the story told more than the query. It did. It sounded a lot more like a query than your letter did. Start with that, take some of the advice here about details, and drop Mr. Bean from the query and you've got it. You're not that far away. <BR/><BR/>Always remember the main purpose of the query: to get them reading the pages. That's it. Two sentences on genre and word count and then the hook. If they pick up the first five pages that you've conveniently provided, the query did it's job.<BR/><BR/>Good luck with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1205366729557320142008-09-17T20:41:00.000-04:002008-09-17T20:41:00.000-04:00Annon said: Tread carefully..Response IIPlease und...Annon said: Tread carefully..<BR/><BR/>Response II<BR/><BR/>Please understand that I'm trying to condense a chapter to a paragraph, but ultimately the convict was able to convince everyone including the woman that not only didn't he intend to force anything, he didn't actually want sex. Instead he was looking for human comfort because he was knowingly sacrificing his life for the woman. He managed to convince everyone that he was too dumb to have done what he was accused of doing.<BR/><BR/>The hard part for me is after making all this convincing, I want to show that he wasn't what he presented. As one who has been burned so many times by people I thought I knew well, I think it's important to know just how clever/evil some can be. I hope this helps you understand.<BR/><BR/>I've been excused from several juries because of my volunteer work... always by the defense attorneys.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-87049387347382147652008-09-17T19:56:00.000-04:002008-09-17T19:56:00.000-04:00Annon said: Tread carefully..I actually went to a ...Annon said: Tread carefully..<BR/><BR/>I actually went to a survivor site to discuss this issue. It took a full chapter to set this up and believe me I do tread carefully. I really can't summarize it because like much of my book preconceptions get in the way.<BR/><BR/>Despite "what everyone knows about 'Bubba'", most inmates don't face rape, but it is one reason that hard core rapist need protective custody. <BR/><BR/>I know a number of serial murders, but the scariest men I know are serial rapist.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-45317478398097233622008-09-17T18:26:00.000-04:002008-09-17T18:26:00.000-04:00can NOT get past your contention that some feminis...can NOT get past your contention that some feminists thought any act of "forced sex" was not rape.<BR/><BR/>Defintion of rape: any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.<BR/><BR/>as a survivor, would say as politely as possible, tread carefully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-26028538399425606292008-09-17T18:08:00.000-04:002008-09-17T18:08:00.000-04:00You say such nice things in those long comments. T...You say such nice things in those long comments. Think about how you can use them in the query: <BR/><BR/>This: <I>My hero is a man who was ruined by our prison system but who has made to decision to become a new man. A small part of the story is that no matter how sincere, no man can leave all his baggage behind.</I><BR/><BR/>Can be this line in a query and present the character involvement. You have to fix this up, of course. <I><BR/>John Smith, driven to murder, sodomy and drug abuse by prison, decides to become a new man*. But, no matter how sincere, no man can leave all his baggage* behind.<BR/></I><BR/>*cliche alert (not necessarily bad, just cautionary)Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-19276352045939017372008-09-17T17:14:00.000-04:002008-09-17T17:14:00.000-04:00Sigh, now it is official, I just got a "Sorry, but...Sigh, now it is official, I just got a "Sorry, but this isn't right for my list" note from the agent to whom I sent the query discussed here. At least she requested pages and sent a personal reply and didn't wait a month to do it. <BR/><BR/>Now, I'll hunt for another candidate and try something else.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-83710038368935242112008-09-17T16:39:00.000-04:002008-09-17T16:39:00.000-04:00Dave F. said... I gather that the prison as prehis...Dave F. said... <BR/><BR/>I gather that the prison as prehistoric world is one of your big metaphors in the novel. <BR/><BR/>Gulp! Yeah, there are a few other metaphors in the book too, but they're not supposed to get in the way of a good fast read. Who, besides us scribblers and English majors wants to read a complicated book by a no one? <BR/><BR/>Then there's my hero... Just between us chickens, the alpha hero is what those of us who work with prisoner long to see. Someone who changed into someone we can admire. We all know that in a maximum security prison, about 30% of those released ARE new men, the rest we get to see again. We just don't know who the real good guys are. I'll never forget the man who, shortly before he was to be released, jacked (stole) half a can of sugar right in front of me. When he remembered I was a "freeworlder" he just grinned and held a finger to his lips for silence. He is now in his sixth year of a successful street ministry. He's not making any money, but he's helping a lot of people. I never would have guessed.<BR/><BR/>My hero is a man who was ruined by our prison system but who has made to decision to become a new man. A small part of the story is that no matter how sincere, no man can leave all his baggage behind.<BR/><BR/>Now, doesn't that sound like an easy character to sell in a portion of a paragraph?<BR/><BR/>I loved your paragraph and I'll probably steal part of it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-3512597726473186532008-09-17T16:03:00.000-04:002008-09-17T16:03:00.000-04:00Of your paragrpah or two in the response, this mig...Of your paragrpah or two in the response, this might be good as a start to the query letter: <BR/><BR/><I>A tiny group of maximum security prisoners trying to survive on a clone of Earth just after our last ice age. However, the mysterious world isn't this virgin planet, but the world where over a million men and women live, our prisons.<BR/>The characters are murders, rapist, drug dealers and gang leaders, </I><BR/><BR/>I would make it read: <BR/><I>A group of men abandoned to a violent world far from civilization. They might as well be colonists an alien planet but they aren't. They are the murders, rapists, drug dealers and gang leaders imprisoned in the Sequin Maximum Security prison in Texas. <BR/><BR/>Prisoner Alpha must adjust... etc...</I><BR/><BR/>I gather that the prison as prehistoric world is one of your big metaphors in the novel. However, you need a character for the reader to care about. This is the reason they will read the book. So it's either one of the prisoners or the entire prison system itself. <BR/><BR/>I think more than the alien world metaphor, you might think about the "Birdman of Alcatraz" as a model story for a description - Perhaps "Murder In The First" from 1995 (Although this isn't a novel) which is gritty.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-74747283070737141432008-09-17T14:31:00.000-04:002008-09-17T14:31:00.000-04:00benwah said... Oops! I replied to xenith instead ...benwah said... <BR/><BR/>Oops! I replied to xenith instead of benwah. SorryUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-91575564004152811232008-09-17T14:29:00.000-04:002008-09-17T14:29:00.000-04:00writtenwyrdd said... Reb, Just my opinion but I do...writtenwyrdd said... <BR/>Reb, Just my opinion but I don't think it's needful to prove you know the subject for a fiction novel.<BR/><BR/>I've been amazed at the willingness of world renowned experts to share their knowledge with a wannabe writer. One man, an expert in wind power, needed a whole paragraph just to list his degrees. He convinced me that solar power is worthless. It takes more energy to produce and safely dispose of solar panels than they will ever produce.<BR/><BR/>Of course another man who needed a whole can of alphabet soup for his degrees and honors convinced they the first man didn't know what he was talking about. When I mentioned this to the first man, I got lost in his first equation!<BR/><BR/>Yes, if we have the background we can research almost anything. I'm not sure that applied to people. I'll give you an example from my book... loosely based on a true story. A man has a contract with a prostitute, and she... hmmm no, it took a whole chapter to tell that story. The point is that even some of my feminist friends agreed that this specific episode of forced sex wasn't rape. It was a crime, but not rape. However, several chapters later when the man dies, I try to show that he had managed to scam everyone. (that part needs work because most of the same feminist didn't pick up on the fact that it WAS rape.) It is very hard for someone with morals and standards to understand those that don't. I don't just mean sociopaths, a nearly useless label, but men and women who fully understand the effect of their actions on other and... the reactions are... different.<BR/><BR/>I tell every good of new volunteers that if they work in prison long enough they will be scammed. There are men who will spend years setting up and executing a scam. In many cases they might even know that the scam will work against their long term interest. They don't care, for them the most important element is the knowledge that they "won."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps others can learn to understand these sorts of people from research, but I've done a lot of reading on the topic and I know I that much of what I read doesn’t agree with what I've learned. first hand.<BR/><BR/>Bottom line, I agree, research is sufficient if you are going to go with "what everyone knows." However, if you are going to try to run against popular knowledge you need some "bonifides."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-19767837765287581892008-09-17T13:57:00.000-04:002008-09-17T13:57:00.000-04:00xenith, you've gone right to the heart of my dilem...xenith, you've gone right to the heart of my dilemma. The line in my query where I admitted I couldn't write a good query letter is because I know I haven't been able to write a creditable brief one. There are just too many preconceptions I have to overcome.<BR/><BR/>It is not false modesty to say, with my English teacher wife's help, I'm a good journeyman writer, but I know that's all I am. I have an occasional good line, but Bartleby won't have to add a new chapter for anything I write. The writing flows, but it is the story that keeps the reader's interest. Hmm, okay, I confess that every few thousand words I'll let my vocabulary slip by using a word like chancre or ensorcelled <BR/><BR/>However when average reader hears I have a "book about prisoners on a virgin planet" they form a very different image than what I've produced. Yes, there is a big fight scene at the start, but even that is more about showing character growth than fighting. <BR/><BR/>Then there's the image of a prison chaplain. The only one's I've ever seen are shown as giving last rites to the condemned on their way to the chair. The ones I know are tough minded men who know that they aren't working with choirboys. They also know that they are the closest thing to a sympathetic voice a prisoner will hear. In the first year or so, you learn that even the "good inmates" are lying manipulators. I've heard the intimate details of the lives of hundreds of inmates, I've only heard two who claim to be innocent. One was a very wealthy CEO who murdered his wife, but tried to blame it on his mistress... all while serving as a pillar of his church. The other is a pastor convicted of child molestation. I actually look forward to seeing both men... as long as they're kept in prison!<BR/><BR/>Sorry, my point is that given time I know I can show that I really have written a very different book and that my characters while real, are very different. Given a few attempts, I can convince most folks that I have a book worth reading. I also know that my first ten pages aren't going wow anyone. I don't want them to. I want them to see a rather staid view of prison. I need to establish my credentials and to set a contrast of confinement to the freedom of the rest of the book. I can't show redemption and growth without showing where the characters start from. I just haven't figured out how to do all that agents are asking in a single page.<BR/>Hmm, how about this:<BR/><BR/>Hi, I've been a volunteer prison chaplain for the last thirteen years and I've written a very good book about a tiny group of maximum security prisoner trying to survive on a clone of Earth just after our last ice age. (whoo, pause for breath) However, the mysterious world isn't this virgin planet, but the world where over a million men and women live, our prisons.<BR/><BR/>The characters are murders, rapist, drug dealers and gang leaders, but trust me, you'll love them when you get to know them. Now, this might not sound like a great book, but if you'll just give me a half-dozen attempts, I'll convince you. ;-)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12334449873248656901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-58895169445314211492008-09-17T12:55:00.000-04:002008-09-17T12:55:00.000-04:00"So goes my dream of kneeling on that inlay, cares..."So goes my dream of kneeling on that inlay, caressing the wood."<BR/><BR/>Tries not to catch Robin's eye.fairyhedgehoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141089706966852951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-49107513282848339452008-09-17T09:56:00.000-04:002008-09-17T09:56:00.000-04:00My guess is everyone's ancestors are impugnable.My...My guess is everyone's ancestors are impugnable.<BR/><BR/>My daughter's paternal ancestors fled the state of Georgis and moved into Texas in the 1800's, and changed the spelling of their last name (who would have thought simply inserting one letter woulda taken the Smokies off a person's trail/tail, but what the hell) because they were horse thieves on the run.<BR/><BR/>It's all good.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-87146018247291403652008-09-17T09:08:00.000-04:002008-09-17T09:08:00.000-04:00Reb,Your story comes across much better when talki...Reb,<BR/><BR/>Your story comes across much better when talking about it informally here as opposed to in your query. That's a common problem, I think. I'm much more interested in your story now that you've presented us with a main character. <BR/><BR/>W/r/t your experience as a prison volunteer giving you unique insights into constructing realistic characters, I think it is enough to say simply that you have years of such experience. Let the reader make the inference that your background will influence your work. <BR/><BR/>I think you've really got something here. Best of luck. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and Xenith...sorry for impugning your ancestors.EBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14361825595951678685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-49608070685645317552008-09-16T22:55:00.000-04:002008-09-16T22:55:00.000-04:00Julie, moles dancing would attract people to your ...Julie, moles dancing would attract people to your Texas Lemonade stand.talpiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978075304795724185noreply@blogger.com