tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post4196301162209759373..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: Face-Lift 577Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-87519293505789503462008-10-26T08:09:00.000-04:002008-10-26T08:09:00.000-04:00The best way to learn writing is by writing, and t...The best way to learn writing is by writing, and the best way to learn to be critiqued is to endure it, say thanks and go off and ponder the merits (or lack thereof) in what others have said about your work. <BR/><BR/>No one likes criticism of their art, but you must learn to endure it and to take an emotional step back. Because if you cannot develop an emotional distance from your writing, you won't be able to see what you wrote instead of what you intended to write. <BR/><BR/>On this site it's rare that anyone is really deliberately cruel, though, so please don't take anyone's words as an attack on you personally. It is terribly easy to be misunderstood as to intent via written word, so bear that in mind, Author.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-57907605489832817242008-10-26T03:55:00.000-04:002008-10-26T03:55:00.000-04:00Dear Group,Thank you for your new comments, and ag...Dear Group,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your new comments, and again for your old. And thank you for your concern. However, do realize that while I may look the part, I am not a giant egg newly fallen from a wall. I will get up again. I always do. I have been knocked down a lot over the years. Especially the last few.<BR/><BR/>I expected to be blasted and I expected it to hurt, but I knew before I made my submission that whatever criticism I took would only be to my benefit. I will write better than I have before, thanks to all of you. When I can submit again please do not withhold comment because you think me weak. Give me the truth – as you did this time. I am not so fragile as I seem. “I get melancholy sometimes. It’s a disease common to mountain men and folk who are alone a lot.” (Ben Rumson speaking to Partner in Paint Your Wagon). <BR/><BR/>It may be a while before I can submit anything from Swords of Fire. My task looms before me like the national debt. Flames of Hatred is 190,000 words. Book II, The Prophecies of Madatar, is 180,000 words. Book III, Bonds of Love, is on hold now, already at 50,000 words and not even half completed. Then there are Books IV, V and VI, which I have not officially begun to write but the storylines are mostly ready. I have to find a way to convert each of these books to less than 100,000 words. I can do it. Flames of Hatred was once 250,000 words. Tavaar’s background story (the married woman referenced in the query) is 500,000 words, but I guess that doesn’t count and I can leave it be. It’s a lot of work, but I expect you have all worked harder. That is why you are able to help.<BR/><BR/>I will give the exercises a go. I’m not sure about the Halloween one, though. It’s almost three in the morning and I haven’t slept yet. I believe the deadline is seven hours away.<BR/><BR/>You are all admirable people. I am glad to have met each of you.<BR/><BR/>Thank you again<BR/><BR/>BevieBeviehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04285435228657659873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-23560524718818370072008-10-26T03:17:00.000-04:002008-10-26T03:17:00.000-04:00Wow. Shudder... I got lost in the Land of the Pass...Wow. Shudder... I got lost in the Land of the Passive Aggressive.<BR/><BR/>Nothing to add that hasn't already been said, but I did start skimming, which is not a good thing. I wholeheartedly agree with Robin on letting this sit a week or so and then doing a re-write. <BR/><BR/>Query: back-jacket blurb to catch someone's interest. (Can easily be done in one professionally typed page to give you an idea of length)<BR/><BR/>Synopsis: Detailed telling (not showing) of the story, pointing toward character arcs, plot points, and showing conclusion. Can be anywhere from 3-20 pages - note publishers/agents guidelines to see what length they like to receive, as everyone likes it different than others. I personally try to have a 3 page, 5 page and 10 page synposis so I have it all covered regardless of what length they prefer. For synposis help, I always recommend Lisa Garnder's website (which I haven't been to in a while, but she used to have a great online lesson on synopses.)<BR/><BR/>Guess I had more to say than I thought.Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17083327647412477394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-14528049040793047142008-10-26T02:47:00.000-04:002008-10-26T02:47:00.000-04:00Author, I hope you do a revision and post it back ...Author, I hope you do a revision and post it back here. Sometimes it takes a couple of rounds to "get it" (the what goes in a query thing) and then comes another couple of rounds to refine.<BR/><BR/>Either that or answer some of the questions posed, such as what the stakes really are, why the main character is sympathetic, and what he learns in this installment. With that info, one or two of us could work this initial draft into a query that follows formula and fits on a page -- a tangible example. <BR/><BR/>You know, sometimes we can read a billion examples and really feel we understand the process, but when it comes to OUR work, we completely cave and just don't see how to apply the process to our own work. <BR/><BR/>Would you care to divulge who the agent was who sent you? That's kinda cool!Phoenix Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03290349031002504007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-21145630043943933212008-10-26T00:31:00.000-04:002008-10-26T00:31:00.000-04:00Author, I guess you don't live in the American Sou...Author, I guess you don't live in the American Southwest, where javalinas (as we often spell it, from the Portuguese name <I>javali</I>) are common enough that we have a regular hunting season for them:<BR/><BR/>http://www.arizonahunting.net/javelina.htm<BR/><BR/>And the J in front is usually not pronounced at all. So it was really a local reference, and if you are from, for example, Rhode Island, there's no reason it should ring a bell.<BR/><BR/>Another place for good advice is Janet Reid's blog:<BR/><BR/>http://queryshark.blogspot.com/talpiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978075304795724185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-43415758981091475772008-10-25T18:49:00.000-04:002008-10-25T18:49:00.000-04:00We don't destroy people emotionally here. We leav...We don't destroy people emotionally here. We leave that to the industry.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-56693188181065320522008-10-25T15:45:00.000-04:002008-10-25T15:45:00.000-04:00I agree with Sarah about most everything, but espe...I agree with Sarah about most everything, but especially about the anons (some are good and you can tell from what they're saying, and how they're saying it, who they are) and some like being anonymous mean shits. So, just listen to the ones trying to be helpful, and, abou the others, remember the old saying:<BR/><BR/>"It's easy to be a know-it-all self-righteous dickwad of an asshole when you're anonymous." Can't remember who said that. Oh yeah. That's right. It was me.<BR/><BR/>Also - you can really learn a lot about structure, rhythm and timing, and word count polishing with these writing exercises.<BR/>Sounds nuts, but it's true.<BR/><BR/>Hope you do one, author.Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-33400027400375632382008-10-25T15:37:00.000-04:002008-10-25T15:37:00.000-04:00Some people don't quite think of the writing as se...Some people don't quite think of the writing as separate from themselves. If that's you, it might be best to seek feedback in a face-to-face venue like a class or critique group, not the blogosphere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-49280234408783196702008-10-25T14:52:00.000-04:002008-10-25T14:52:00.000-04:00An agent sent you here? Fantastic. This is a great...An agent sent you here? Fantastic. This is a great place to learn about writing, including queries and such. Although we sometimes get a little rambunctious, we are here to help each other become better writers. And that includes getting used to rejection and critiquing.<BR/><BR/>Welcome. I hope you keep coming back and that you participate in the writing exercises.<BR/><BR/>Oh and <I>some</I> of the anon posters are best ignored. Not particularly talking about the ones here, just saying...Sarah Laurensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09252565450452195395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-32069546030180983552008-10-25T11:45:00.000-04:002008-10-25T11:45:00.000-04:00"If your purpose was to destroy me emotionally I m..."If your purpose was to destroy me emotionally I must tell you: you are shooting fish in a barrel."<BR/><BR/>Author, just want to take a step out of this whole query thing and make sure that you are okay. Because although everyone gets a little sensitive about his work, I feel like maybe something else is going on that makes you a little more vulnerable and frankly the tone of your post worries me. <BR/><BR/>Remember that no one has even read your book and it may be absofrickinlutely phenomenal. It may not be, but it's not you. And even if it were total crap, you are not.<BR/><BR/>Why not still do the Halloween exercise just to let loose? I am personally entrenched in a literary short story that has taken, seriously, a year and a half to write and I am still not ready to submit it. One night for the hell of it I did one of the exercises (the woman in the painting, EE's big slushpile) and having to meet the word count actually helped me cut my (completely different) short story in places that were screaming to be cut. So maybe doing something fun and ridiculous will lift you a bit.<BR/><BR/>In any case, I hope that you are feeling better than your post suggests.<BR/><BR/>JazAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-88244771688824742192008-10-25T11:19:00.000-04:002008-10-25T11:19:00.000-04:00There's no exact formula, but if you start with an...There's no exact formula, but if you start with an elevator pitch (a single-sentence that describes the essentials of the story) you can expand from there.<BR/><BR/>Regarding to give away the ending or not, there is no right or wrong answer. So it might be helpful to try both ways. <BR/><BR/>Best wishes for your project!writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-32522417147848979052008-10-25T11:16:00.000-04:002008-10-25T11:16:00.000-04:00bbjd-We creators are a sensitive lot. We work hard...bbjd-<BR/>We creators are a sensitive lot. We work hard to pour the contents of our souls onto page, labor a day to turn one phrase. It hurts when others don't see our child the same as we, but take heart: this is the process. Every author goes through it and none is spared. In the end, you will be a much better writer for it. Take a day, lick your wounds and come back stronger.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02481884859967101525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-7462518397875900012008-10-25T10:47:00.000-04:002008-10-25T10:47:00.000-04:00You imply the previous posting WAS intended as an ...<I>You imply the previous posting WAS intended as an attack.</I><BR/><BR/>Not a personal attack, just not phrased as gently as possible.Evil Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-83417273318979020702008-10-25T10:42:00.000-04:002008-10-25T10:42:00.000-04:00Hi Author,How about taking a few days and trying f...Hi Author,<BR/><BR/>How about taking a few days and trying for a rewrite?<BR/><BR/>Here are some nuggets I've held onto from previous EE-athon query annihilations - I think they would really help you:<BR/><BR/><I>I've been saving notes from EE's FaceLifts - and here are a few that I <BR/>grouped together because I think they are, taken together, a good all-around <BR/>formula for query writing: <BR/> <BR/>Note from 8/23 (not 2008, so must have been 2007?) EE FaceLift: <BR/>You're telling us too much of the plot. It feels more like an outline than a <BR/>cohesive description of your story. Come up with a topic sentence for each <BR/>paragraph and build on it with a logical progression of ideas, cause and <BR/>effect, etc. This jumps from idea to idea to much.</I><BR/><BR/>AND:<BR/> <BR/><I>You're telling us too much of the plot. Your goal is to interest us in the <BR/>book. Too much information is as bad as too little. Try limiting yourself to <BR/>ten sentences. It'll help you see what's necessary and what you can cut. And <BR/>of course I don't mean ten sentences that list key events; ten sentences that <BR/>take us logically through the one main story line. –EE, 8/23/07Facelift critique </I><BR/><BR/>Good luck! When you have it ready, pop the rewrite back here for a fresh look.<BR/><BR/>(Don't redo too quickly, in my opinion. Sit on this a few days- write a few key sentences down, and then let it stew. If you rewrite too quickly, you run the risk of simply taking bits and pieces from the old query, and trying to make them work.)Robin B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11471528485010071521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-71232516113059248902008-10-25T10:41:00.000-04:002008-10-25T10:41:00.000-04:00Evil Editor.Thank you for clarifying my misunderst...Evil Editor.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for clarifying my misunderstanding. I am glad I was wrong.<BR/><BR/>I apologize to Anonymous for my being foolish. Please forgive me. You are all so much more well-read and quick thinking than I. Sometimes I have difficulty keeping up.<BR/><BR/>You imply the previous posting WAS intended as an attack. It did not strike home. However, I do understand the message. I do not disagree.<BR/><BR/>Avalina's name is not an issue - to me. I like it. Besides, what difference does it make when the book's too long to be published anyway? She may not survive the devastation I have to put Flames of Hatred through. She would not be my first casualty.<BR/><BR/>Thank youBeviehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04285435228657659873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-90694413319848524662008-10-25T10:18:00.000-04:002008-10-25T10:18:00.000-04:00Anon author of #5 here again:Query author -- yikes...Anon author of #5 here again:<BR/><BR/>Query author -- yikes, paranoia! I have no idea wtf you're talking about. My prior comment wasn't even about you or your query. I just pointed out ways the #5 GTP differed from STARDUST's plot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-52370148516853297192008-10-25T10:10:00.000-04:002008-10-25T10:10:00.000-04:00Apparently the pig references are grounded in this...Apparently the pig references are grounded in this: http://boothbayregister.maine.com/2005-08-04/focus_on_wildlife.html<BR/><BR/>As the animal is pronounced with an H sound at the front, and is somewhat obscure, I doubt readers will automatically think of it. Though Annaleah, which I just made up, has the same rhythm and avoids the problem, if it <I>is</I> a problem. <BR/><BR/>Anon author of #5 was comparing the plot of Stardust with fake plot #5, not with Flames of Hatred, which wasn't mentioned at all in the comment. So if that's the comment that bothered you, author, your concerns were groundless. Now, the previous anon....Evil Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-67639294299754746742008-10-25T09:45:00.000-04:002008-10-25T09:45:00.000-04:00Thank you. Thank you all for your comments. When t...Thank you. Thank you all for your comments. When there is a consensus one must bow to it. And since I am already flat on the ground that makes it easier to do.<BR/><BR/>Owie.<BR/><BR/>I knew it was going to be rough. I just didn’t know how rough it would be. You are, of course, perfectly correct in your evaluations. (Mostly correct, anyway. There are a couple of points I do not agree with, but those are too minor to care about.) The flaws are so obvious – when you point them out – I should have corrected them before ever sending this to an agent. Unfortunately, it is kind of a like a book I bought my son. It’s a picture book, with various animals hidden in beautiful landscapes. The idea is to locate these hidden animals (they could be anywhere and any color) and time yourself to see how long it takes. After a couple of hours of vain searching we would go to the solution and see where the animals were. Returning to the picture the animals would just jump out at us. How could we have missed them? I don’t know. Just thick, I guess.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of thick, I must confess to continued confusion, despite the wealth of help I have been given. (No, I am NOT being sarcastic.) What goes into the query anyway? Am I supposed to reveal the ending? I apologize for still being confused on this point, but I am thick. Literally.<BR/><BR/>Also, I don’t understand the references to Avalina being a pig. A couple of you brought it up, so I assume there’s something I am missing. It’s a beautiful name. And it SOUNDS wonderful. I just now looked it up on the internet. I learned it is a Hebrew name. Oh. Sorry. I get it now. I think that may be in bad taste. But then, I don’t much care for pork.<BR/><BR/>I had intended to thank each evaluator, acknowledging their comments. Unfortunately, I created so many unanswered questions and flaws that is no longer practical. I will say thank you for taking it easy on me. Nearly all of you provided me with valuable information which should help me improve myself, and you did it in a professional manner. I say nearly all because there was one which stands apart. The information is valuable for it represents an honest reaction, and I’ll take the truth no matter how much it hurts. But I’m not sure about the professionalism – unless you are a professional assassin.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous (Anon author of #5). My emotional response to your comments was that you were not only pointing out why my query sucks, but you were actually attacking me in the process. While the others found it silly, annoying, or whatever, I feel that you got angry about it. I am sorry. The story is supposed to fun. I have no desire to make anyone angry for any reason. I don’t know. Maybe everyone feels as you do, but since they are not anonymous they held back. It is easy to attack with deadly force from the shadows. If your purpose was to destroy me emotionally I must tell you: you are shooting fish in a barrel. If your purpose is to show me exactly how rough it can be, I thank you. I’ve always known that to play with the big girls and boys one has to be ready to be knocked down. That’s how one learns to stand up properly. Having read through the Evil Editor archives, I guess I am inclined to believe the latter is your purpose. Thank you. <BR/><BR/>Once again, I thank you all. I especially thank the agent who rejected this query and told me to come here for help. Agents do not normally do that, I don’t think. It has taken thirty years for me to get to this place. Without your help I would probably be faced with another thirty years to get to where you all are. (I have visited some of your blogs. You are all much better writers than I.) I don’t have another thirty years. Thank you for accelerating my education. I wish … Well, I guess that’s my biggest problem, isn’t it?<BR/><BR/>Thank you. I shall continue to come here to read what you have written. I enjoy your comments (when they are not written about me). I will continue to visit all of your blogs. (Don’t worry. I won’t leave comments.) I was going to submit something for the Halloween assignment, but I’m not up to that anymore. Besides, I have other work to do.<BR/><BR/>To Ulysses: You weren’t the only one to mention chopping the story in half, but you probably did it the most elegantly. The chiseling began last night. Thank you. I think.Beviehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04285435228657659873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-77730364909596432072008-10-25T05:43:00.000-04:002008-10-25T05:43:00.000-04:00Sarah, you're not a fully-fledged grammar pedant y...Sarah, you're not a fully-fledged grammar pedant yet! It isn't the is/are/was/to be that makes it passive, but the combination with "by" (real or implied).nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-52481191417907028992008-10-25T00:22:00.000-04:002008-10-25T00:22:00.000-04:00Nobody else mentioned the Hare Krishna at the end?...Nobody else mentioned the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_krishna#Mantra" REL="nofollow">Hare Krishna</A> at the end? That was the best part of the query!Adam Heinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02225813532455467868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-46930506832455214512008-10-24T23:46:00.000-04:002008-10-24T23:46:00.000-04:00I too read Krishna. I get the impression the aotho...I too read Krishna. I get the impression the aothor wants it that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-76586331777578794172008-10-24T23:37:00.000-04:002008-10-24T23:37:00.000-04:00If he's going to save the day, he'll have to work ...<I>If he's going to save the day, he'll have to work fast. Hurry, Khirsha. Hurry, Khirsha. Hurry, hurry, Khirsha, Khirsha.</I><BR/><BR/>My sweet lord but I Loved that kicker, oh Evil one!<BR/><BR/>Author, when I hear the phrase "By reason of . . ." I immediately think insanity. Probably because I watch too many Boston Legal reruns. Don't worry, though, I am definitely not in your target market. I am compelled to add that your intended title failed to light my fire. <BR/><BR/>MeriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-61783058889812190692008-10-24T23:18:00.000-04:002008-10-24T23:18:00.000-04:00I too read Krishna every single time. Even when I ...I too read Krishna every single time. Even when I tried to correct myself.Renee Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08170818341212519937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-28601441527975793692008-10-24T22:49:00.001-04:002008-10-24T22:49:00.001-04:00What everyone else said about wordy. There's no re...What everyone else said about wordy. There's no reason to say "by reason of" even once in your query, let alone three times. The sentences are a mass of hesitation marks.<BR/>There may be a good story hiding under here - it looks at least a little out of the ordinary - but it's hidden by the verbiage.<BR/><BR/>I am going to disagree with EE on one point. I don't think the peril needs to be emperilling the galaxy or even the whole world. Provided we care about Kirsha (sp?) and his family, the story could be about their peril only, and satisfy. But we do have to care about them first. And so far I don't.<BR/>-Barbarabatgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15143310557906978680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-19644174496609600022008-10-24T22:49:00.000-04:002008-10-24T22:49:00.000-04:00Since when is murder an escalation over treason? ...Since when is murder an escalation over treason? Doesn't treason more or less by definition involve getting a LOT of people on your own side killed?<BR/><BR/>Is Avalina some sort of pig? Or are we not supposed to consider what the name SOUNDS like?<BR/><BR/>In addition to the other criticisms made here, I must say I couldn't find any reason to sympathize with your hero or, for that matter, even to like him. He seems to have no particular admirable characteristics. C.J. Cherryh had a character who was in much the same position, only worse (he had accidentally killed his brother), but he was very sympathetic because of his lifelong efforts to please his indifferent father, and for the way he handled exile and then allegiance to the protagonist, who was remembered as an ancient force for evil (but was nothing of the sort). Why should we be interested in this guy? He doesn't even seem to learn any life lessons.talpiannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978075304795724185noreply@blogger.com