tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post3274150456939988721..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: Q & A 121Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-76111366706254317002007-10-17T08:05:00.000-04:002007-10-17T08:05:00.000-04:00Yeah, that book'd never be published today :). I ...Yeah, that book'd never be published today :). I don't even know why the supermarkets still carry it.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-42446713824778414532007-10-16T20:04:00.000-04:002007-10-16T20:04:00.000-04:00I find simple lines that draw the reader on down t...<I>I find simple lines that draw the reader on down the page to be the most powerful, rather than the wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am stuff. </I><BR/><BR/>I agree with you. The problem is...<BR/><BR/><I>"When he was nearly thirteen, my brother Jem got his arm badly broken at the elbow."</I><BR/><BR/>The above line doesn't do it for me. <BR/><BR/>Lots of kids break their arms and there isn't anything mysterious about how they do it. I don't need a dead body to make me interested in reading more, but a kid falling off his skateboard is not gripping either. This does not draw my eyes down the page.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-79997268123603707712007-10-16T08:18:00.000-04:002007-10-16T08:18:00.000-04:00Hmm, well, I suppose it was unkind. To EE, anyway...Hmm, well, I suppose it was unkind. To EE, anyway, he's supposed to make the jokes!<BR/><BR/>But, given the common phrase is "clamour for attention", I'll stick to believing it was a malapropism.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-90462322322847925952007-10-15T22:15:00.000-04:002007-10-15T22:15:00.000-04:00So if they don't do market studies even at the big...<I>So if they don't do market studies even at the bigger houses, is it just for cost and that by the time the launch costs merit a focus group, the writer will already have a legion of readers?</I><BR/><BR/>There is no indication that market research could help sell novels. That's why they don't do it. Book publishers do not make enormous profits and they can't waste money on practices that are unhelpful. <BR/><BR/>Also, they already know what types of books people enjoy; those are called "genres". The trick is finding well-written, enjoyable books.<BR/><BR/>Market research is very important for non-fiction books, however. My apologies if you're referring to non-fiction.jjdebenedictishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950592240599703771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-67659980670801537012007-10-15T19:45:00.000-04:002007-10-15T19:45:00.000-04:00I believe clamber for attention was used correctly...I believe clamber for attention was used correctly. A secondary meaning for clamber is scramble.<BR/><BR/>Google the phrase.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-84749535625779048862007-10-15T19:24:00.000-04:002007-10-15T19:24:00.000-04:00Nathan has had a couple of posts on market researc...Nathan has had a couple of posts on market research for those interested:<BR/><BR/><A>http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2007/05/secret-formula-of-bestsellers.html</A><BR/><BR/><A>http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2007/05/you-tell-me-how-could-publishing.html</A><BR/><BR/>As for "clamber" -- oh my, guys. Can we spell t-y-p-o? I was impressed this person knew to use "were" instead of "was" in <I>If I were told</I> at the beginning of the post. And they got the commas and hyphens right, even in <I>wham-bam-thank-you-ma’am stuff</I>. They obviously know their mechanics. Jumping all over a typo is just not nice. (OK, the comments <I>were</I> funny, just not nice.)<BR/><BR/>Poster: I think Bernita has it right. Check out the openings of novels published in your genre in the last couple of years to see what's <I>de rigeur</I> in today's market. The classics will, of course, always endure. I would have been more surprised if you'd chosen a midlist novel from the 60s as your example. Would you buy <I>that</I> book today? Midlisters have to play to the conventions of the day.<BR/><BR/>And I'm not sure I've ever seen where anyone says it's mandatory to hook your reader with the first sentence. At the risk of sounding like a fangirl, I shall direct you to Nathan's blog once more. He recently held a "first line" contest. Lines and comments may be informative:<BR/><BR/><A>http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2007/09/stupendously-ultimate-first-line.html</A><BR/><BR/>Nathan's comment about first lines in his post at:<BR/><A>http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2007/09/and-nominees-are.html</A>Phoenix Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03290349031002504007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-71233285552055496722007-10-15T18:02:00.000-04:002007-10-15T18:02:00.000-04:00No, launch costs for books are not low enough to j...<I> No, launch costs for books are not low enough to just run the book. The industry tries to find good, enjoyable books to print, and then desperately hopes a few of them will be hits to pay for all the misses and modest successes. </I><BR/><BR/>Well clearly they don't just take any book. That's why we're here to learn from pros like EE. But it doesn't cost the tens of millions to launch most new authors, like it might for films from new actors or new directors.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I> And it's pretty hard to do market research for books, because what worked last time will not work indefinitely. Readers get bored and want something new (yet well-written.) No one could have predicted that anyone would want to read about Neanderthals before Clan of the Cave Bear. No one could have predicted a memoir about a dog could become a #1 NYT bestseller before Marley & Me. </I><BR/><BR/>And people don't get tired of the same in other forms of media? Some types of books will always sell, other types will shock people when they hit it big. Again, this isn't unique to just novels. <BR/><BR/>So if they don't do market studies even at the bigger houses, is it just for cost and that by the time the launch costs merit a focus group, the writer will already have a legion of readers?merperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17212282661263276801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-88795215776463366432007-10-15T16:54:00.000-04:002007-10-15T16:54:00.000-04:00An opening sentence has to be interesting; it does...An opening sentence has to be interesting; it doesn't have to be something like "Glenlivet took the knife and plunged into John McFart's chest, then ran off laughing."<BR/><BR/>As long as it draws the reader in, what difference does it make if it's a quiet introduction or a loud one?<BR/><BR/>As long as it's the right one for your particular story.<BR/><BR/>~jerseygirlNancy Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06214579721075450777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-81585715598290647282007-10-15T14:55:00.000-04:002007-10-15T14:55:00.000-04:00I felt a clamant need to clamber down into the pit...I felt a clamant need to clamber down into the pit at the clambake, but the clamor of the clamjamfry made my hands so clammy that I slipped. Calmly, I climbed back up, into the clamorus crowd of my clan, the Clampetts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-23988141820320743762007-10-15T14:18:00.000-04:002007-10-15T14:18:00.000-04:00I just finished reading Certain Women by Madeleine...I just finished reading <I>Certain Women</I> by Madeleine L'Engle. The first sentence of the book is: "The <I>Portia</I>, a shabbily comfortable fifty-foot boat, was tied up at the dock of a Haida Indian village a day's sail out of Prince Rupert."<BR/><BR/>There's nary an explosion in the whole book, either literal or figurative. Descriptions are spare and subtle. The most action we get is a walk across Manhattan.<BR/><BR/>Yet I found the book and the writing captivating. The kind of book I put down (only reluctantly and preferably only when I've finished it) and say, "I wish I could write like that."<BR/><BR/>But then, L'Engle's most famous first sentence is "It was a dark and stormy night." She seemed able to buck every trend and get away with it beautifully.<BR/><BR/>I've lost my train of thought. If you find it, please send it home.<BR/><BR/>I wish I could write like that...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-28535001792017128212007-10-15T13:50:00.000-04:002007-10-15T13:50:00.000-04:00I'm not sure you're really looking for an answer, ...I'm not sure you're really looking for an answer, or simply affirmation of an opinion.<BR/>But if you really are, try checking out the opening paragraphs of published debut novelists in your genre for the last couple of years to see if your hypothesis is vindicated.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-57060053516338538602007-10-15T12:12:00.001-04:002007-10-15T12:12:00.001-04:00Uh...The Inheritors?Uh...The Inheritors?nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-54845458826407215982007-10-15T12:12:00.000-04:002007-10-15T12:12:00.000-04:00There needs to be a hook. That is all. Loud or sof...There needs to be a hook. That is all. Loud or soft, the hook you use depends upon the fish you want to catch. Fortunately, not everyone wants to read exactly the same stuff as everyone else. Lots of fish in the sea. It's the craft that counts. It ain't no fish in a barrel shoot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-48449228842860613572007-10-15T11:59:00.000-04:002007-10-15T11:59:00.000-04:00Do publishers ever do market studies with books, l...<I>Do publishers ever do market studies with books, like other media publishers do focus groups for TV shows and movies?<BR/><BR/>Or are the launch costs low enough that they just run the book and see how it does?</I><BR/><BR/>No, launch costs for books are not low enough to just run the book. The industry tries to find good, enjoyable books to print, and then desperately hopes a few of them will be hits to pay for all the misses and modest successes.<BR/><BR/>And it's pretty hard to do market research for books, because what worked last time will not work indefinitely. Readers get bored and want something new (yet well-written.) No one could have predicted that anyone would want to read about Neanderthals before <I>Clan of the Cave Bear</I>. No one could have predicted a memoir about a dog could become a #1 NYT bestseller before <I>Marley & Me</I>. <BR/><BR/>It's a crapshoot. The common denominator for success is a great book--but the book can be about almost anything.jjdebenedictishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16950592240599703771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-45047944409158444792007-10-15T11:49:00.000-04:002007-10-15T11:49:00.000-04:00I think complaints about the death about the quiet...I think complaints about the death about the quiet opening is more a sign of someone not paying proper attention.<BR/><BR/>Go look at those quiet openings. I mean, go REALLY LOOK at them. They may be quiet, they may have a lot more than a single line to the first paragraph and a lot of information within them...but I guarantee you, they have a hook.<BR/><BR/>A hook doesn't have to be an explosion-James-Bond-opening-scene which makes your reader go "WOW! I can't wait to see what blows up next!" and I think that's a lousy idea.<BR/><BR/>It just has to make the reader interested. It has to draw back the tent flap and bid them enter, and then hold their hand as they come into the darkness. That's all.<BR/><BR/>Rudyard Kipling, John Steinbeck, Charles Dickens, Jack London, Umberto Eco...read their books and think harder about what a hook and an opening is. They're hooking with the skill of an expert fisherman, where too many books (Hi, Dan Brown) have the grace and subtly of fishing with dynamite.Peter Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17450924500401351569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-79068198647999466752007-10-15T11:40:00.000-04:002007-10-15T11:40:00.000-04:00in other words, there would be none of that bullsh...<I>in other words, there would be none of that bullshit crap-TV-show pretend-stranding going on, where there’s really a swank Third World hotel with hot and running showers on the other side of the island</I><BR/><BR/>Lol, or like in Stevenson's <I>Kidnapped</I>? Although that wasn't swank.<BR/><BR/>I agree. I think too much gets made of snappy catchy opening lines. I just want to get a sense from the beginning that the writer has a point, and knows how he's going to get there.Staciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969399927758009095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-27054028394505085102007-10-15T09:56:00.000-04:002007-10-15T09:56:00.000-04:00I've heard many authors complain about the death o...I've heard many authors complain about the death of the quiet opening, and I just don't get it. You're assuming a handful of publishing blogs make up the entire publishing industry. But if you go to a bookstore and pull books off the shelf at random, you'll find lots of quiet openings. Some published authors write entire novels without including a single explosion. But these authors realize that quiet does not equal boring, <I>and</I> their stories deliver on the promises their quiet openings make.<BR/><BR/>For example, the first sentence of your question had me completely hooked. I was ready to read on and find out what your top five books were (so I could compare them to my top five and show you where you went wrong). Instead, I got the bait and switch in paragraph two when you started whining about what everyone else was doing. Frankly, the only thing that drew my eyes down the page was the bracketed blue text. And I have no idea what a "losing art" is. If you spend more time on making your story interesting and less time worrying about what everyone else's opinions are, you could probably start with a freakin silent beginning and still get published.Blogless Trollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03983848259551488867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-53618428897824377972007-10-15T09:44:00.000-04:002007-10-15T09:44:00.000-04:00Whenever something clambers for my attention, I br...Whenever something clambers for my attention, I brush it off and stomp on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-63971557279607867172007-10-15T09:23:00.000-04:002007-10-15T09:23:00.000-04:00Are you close friends with a famous, critically ac...Are you close friends with a famous, critically acclaimed, and best-selling writer (say, Truman Capote)? Then your first book can start as quietly as you'd like. Otherwise, you better find a way to hook your reader.amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04889050035917132503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-86008286313429562652007-10-15T09:16:00.000-04:002007-10-15T09:16:00.000-04:00Do publishers ever do market studies with books, l...Do publishers ever do market studies with books, like other media publishers do focus groups for TV shows and movies? <BR/><BR/>Or are the launch costs low enough that they just run the book and see how it does?merperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17212282661263276801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-6835177206513283462007-10-15T08:09:00.000-04:002007-10-15T08:09:00.000-04:00Clamber for attention? That must be why they need...Clamber for attention? That must be why they need the hooks!nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.com