tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post7010840412855408081..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: Face-Lift 638Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-56395304865361719322009-06-02T18:31:04.490-04:002009-06-02T18:31:04.490-04:00If Sandra is obsessively hunting Sniper down, you ...If Sandra is obsessively hunting Sniper down, you might want to make that more obvious. It'll make everything more exciting._*rachel*_https://www.blogger.com/profile/03293167107180931700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-86610315560054955822009-06-02T15:50:23.632-04:002009-06-02T15:50:23.632-04:00I have to agree with Joseph Lewis here ... seems t...I have to agree with Joseph Lewis here ... seems to me that the story is about a supervillain trying to destroy London, only instead of a killer satellite/vial of deadly bacteria/army of killer wombats, he's got a time machine. I feel that's a let-down.<br /><br />(Also, if we're talking "Doctor Who" ... apart from the villains' motivation, it's pretty much the plot of the Jon Pertwee-era story "Invasion of the Dinosaurs".)<br /><br />Well. I guess, if the time travel aspect of the story isn't that compelling, you could do a lot worse than follow Dave F.'s advice and focus hard on the characters.Steve Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836762265698458170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-50432428539928917702009-06-02T13:21:01.671-04:002009-06-02T13:21:01.671-04:00Individuals like Lenin are just the tip of the ice...Individuals like Lenin are just the tip of the iceberg of the forces that drive historical events. Taking him out might change what happens, change the face of the revolution, but not to the extent of preventing it happening at all.<br /><br />Also, I still don't see the connection between Lenin's murder and the destruction of central London.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-10349960801609625352009-06-02T12:40:23.214-04:002009-06-02T12:40:23.214-04:00The first three points of your comment did a bette...The first three points of your comment did a better job of intriguing me than the actual query did. If I were you, I would format your query like this:<br /><br />Paragraph one--Tell us about Sarah. Detail her troubled past, how she fell in with nefarious characters and the negative effects the timesplash cult had on her.<br /><br />Paragraph two--From the timesplash cult, segue into information about the unique aspects of time-travel in your universe. I loved the river analogy.<br /><br />Paragraph three--Tell us about Sniper and how he wishes to manipulate time for personal gain.<br /><br />Paragraph four--bio<br /><br />That's how I would do it. But keep in mind that this is just the opinion of one minion and some of the others are better at this than I am. Good luck.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07681932402948885690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-75126022999544772672009-06-02T12:06:29.027-04:002009-06-02T12:06:29.027-04:00I had, in fact, tried to do that, but because I'm ...<I>I had, in fact, tried to do that, but because I'm using unconventional approach to time, some kind of explanation is needed. </I>Good, now step away from the technical, sci-fi stuff and deal with character. <br /><br />I's not impossible to infuse their characters into the story. Look at each time they speak (if you use a lot of dialog) and crank their personalities into the dialog. Or if you don't use a lot of dialog, check the character's actions and make those actions mirror the character. It might only be a word or two changed in a hundred words but that's all it takes sometimes. And if your characters change during the story, then make sure that change is apparent. This doesn't have to be cartoonish or one-dimensional, it just has to register on the reader. At key points make the characters just a bit more vivid.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-39619470780758042512009-06-02T08:04:58.147-04:002009-06-02T08:04:58.147-04:00@Anon Author
Regarding #3 - So your time-travel s...@Anon Author<br /><br />Regarding #3 - So your time-travel story doesn't actually have anything to do with time travel, per se? It's simply the physical act of messing with time that causes physical explosions? It's not a matter of rewriting the timeline at all? I'm finding the premise much less compelling now.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14891299299223740869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-42458680876659527432009-06-02T07:13:07.978-04:002009-06-02T07:13:07.978-04:00Thank you all for your kind words. (Yes, I'm t...Thank you all for your kind words. (Yes, I'm the anonymous querier.) I want to say a couple of things:<br /><br />1. As you supposed, Sandra is very screwed up - and that is central to the story - that's why she takes up with Sniper and why she ends up in a mental institution and why she then obsessively hunts him down. <br /><br />2. The story doesn't open with the destruction of London but with a smaller town - Ommen in The Netherlands. <br /><br />3. Picture time as a river flowing along. You lob a brick into it and there is a splash but this is quickly smoothed over as the river flows on, although a little turbulence passes downstream for a while. The physical reality of such a system is unlike the model we have from relativity or quantum mechanics but that's the basis for the book. Anomalies cause 'splashes' but they all get straightened out so that the future remains unchanged. However, when that 'turbulence' hits the present, it can be very destructive around the location where the anomaly originated. Kill your grandfather and a few buildings shake. Kill Lenin - before his impat on world affairs - and you might as well detonate a nuke in the present. It's not the usual sort of temporal anomaly thing.<br /><br />4. The only reason Sandra and Jay have to go back is that every sensible plan to stop the timesplash has failed and (because of the premise about how temporal anomalies work) their very last chance is to intercept Sniper in the past. S & J just happen to be there with the equipment and the intel about what's going to happen.<br /><br />5. I think 1902 is almost the last moment in time to kill Lenin (for my purposes) - he hasn't even met Stalin at that point, the Bolsheviks haven't formed, and, although most of his ideas about the Party he wants have been formed, he hasn't yet persuaded enough people to give his ideas any momentum. I think that if he were taken out in 1902, there would not have been the will in the Party to create the kind of revolution that came - if there would have been one at all.<br /><br />6. I completely accept what several of you have said about emphasising the characters and their struggles. I had, in fact, tried to do that, but because I'm using unconventional approach to time, some kind of explanation is needed. Including what I thought was the barest minimum has led to lots of confusion judging by your comments.<br /><br />So, thanks again everybody. This has been extremely useful (if perplexing). And thanks to you too, EE, for giving me the opportunity for all this great feedback.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-19495631034918363372009-06-02T06:45:26.569-04:002009-06-02T06:45:26.569-04:00I'm now pondering letting the younger minions in o...I'm now pondering letting the younger minions in on the reference for the butterfly remark. Or should I let them find it for themselves?<br /><br />:Dnonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-71290090659566090772009-06-01T23:59:49.968-04:002009-06-01T23:59:49.968-04:00Time travel has a lot of logic issues, but if you ...Time travel has a lot of logic issues, but if you reach the 'suspend disbelief' point with your characters or some other strong aspect of your story, then the logic is not as critical.<br /><br />I liked the idea of this being a fad that all the kids do - that playing with time is considered fun no matter how many people they wind up killing. It seems like there are no consequences for diddling with time.<br /><br />I think you really have something here, but the query does get a bit caught up in logic problems rather than your stronger characters or psychological issues.Sarah Laurensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09252565450452195395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-87257622440098190162009-06-01T19:55:02.045-04:002009-06-01T19:55:02.045-04:00I think I followed your explanation of timesplash,...I think I followed your explanation of timesplash, but it felt like you dropped a piano from the second floor into your query.<br /><br />She stepped on a butterfly? EE, I love you. Platonically, of course.<br /><br />I would so not go for a guy called Sniper. Same goes for Torquemada.<br /><br />I'd say: giving Jay good reason to join MI5's mission to sabotage(/whatever he specifically does) the splashteams. Now, I know MI5 and MI6 through some spy novels and a WWII memoir. Are you querying in Europe or America?<br /><br />I'd get rid of the Now in the third paragraph.<br /><br />I like it. I'm sure you take care of some of the possible time travel plot holes in your book; I'd suggest you shy away from them in the query, much like you have already. First, you could easily sink your query with them. Second, they're much easier to fix than a lame main character. Working Sandra in more sounds good to me. I like it!_*rachel*_https://www.blogger.com/profile/03293167107180931700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-50664801576955864882009-06-01T18:44:18.275-04:002009-06-01T18:44:18.275-04:00I'm not a huge SF buff - maybe that's why I'm not ...I'm not a huge SF buff - maybe that's why I'm not having causality-induced fits - but this appeals to me. I like the idea of a world where time travel has become normalized to the point of being trendy. Maybe there is an important allegory in here..? <br /><br />A little more about Sandra and I'm sold :)Chelsea Pitcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16301150715189103602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-47552618619799597702009-06-01T17:32:03.141-04:002009-06-01T17:32:03.141-04:00Time-travellers ate my comment!Time-travellers ate my comment!nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-34201356034333722002009-06-01T16:20:27.837-04:002009-06-01T16:20:27.837-04:00Yes, "Blink" is a very good scary story ... it's a...Yes, "Blink" is a very good scary story ... it's also, though, a very good time-travel story; it answers all its own puzzles and ties up all its temporal loose ends in one neat four-dimensional knot.<br /><br />I suppose I'm saying that there's an appeal, and a potential market, for this sort of <I>clever</I> time-travel story ... though, if there's any of that cleverness here, it's not coming through in the query as it stands. (It might come in the mechanics of the time travel - like, how <I>does</I> Lenin's assassination result in London's destruction?)<br /><br />Of course, the best place to fiddle with Lenin's timeline - the neatest Jonbar Hinge, as it were - would lie in <I>stopping</I> the attempt on his life by Fanya Kaplan in 1918. But I bet the alternative-history guys have already been over all the possible ramifications of that one ...Steve Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836762265698458170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-24696715551818009502009-06-01T14:46:21.203-04:002009-06-01T14:46:21.203-04:00"Blink" is considered one of the scariest episodes..."Blink" is considered one of the scariest episodes of Doctor Who for children. <br /><br />I think I've seen every Dr Who broadcast in the USA and have several episode guides about them. Back in the late 1989 or 90 there was a tour of a Dr Who exhibit through the USA and I hauled my friends to it. I saw Davros close up. The doors to the exhibit were Tardis doors. All sorts of neat junk, and a bumper sticker. You could see that bumper sticker 2 miles away on a flat road (exageration). <br /><br />Dr Who uses time travel to set up each of his adventures.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-45047584093624026902009-06-01T14:23:56.686-04:002009-06-01T14:23:56.686-04:00My gut reaction is eh? wha? scrambled eggs. so wh...My gut reaction is eh? wha? scrambled eggs. so what? You'll have to start with the destruction of London and the discovery that it only happened because of this legendary meddling jerk and the realization the whole wreck can be prevented, but only if our dear heroes do x y z near-impossible things in the next six hours, which includes destroying the time gadget. <br /><br />Although without Lenin all world history would have proceeded otherwise so why they'd focus on destruction of this wee bit of London as the Biggest Tragedy In The 20th Century is not clear. Maybe the heroes are there in some sort of true-love bliss and barely manage to beam out in the last second before dying spectacularly...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-91644570777957859092009-06-01T13:35:09.895-04:002009-06-01T13:35:09.895-04:00Dave F. - I'm not sure about that; I've seen a lot...Dave F. - I'm not sure about that; I've seen a lot of time travel stories where the appeal mostly lies in the intellectual puzzle of working out how the disrupted causes and effects all fit together - the characters tend to be secondary, in these things.<br /><br />Of course, a lot of those tend to play out like Greek tragedies - you know, where the efforts of the characters bring about the very events that they're trying to prevent.<br /><br />(Examples? Um. The comic time travels of Stanislaw Lem. Michael Moorcock's "Behold the Man". Or, more recently, some of the plots on "Doctor Who" and "Torchwood" - the "Blink" episode of "Doctor Who" is a good one, I think.)Steve Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836762265698458170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-3998291993981882482009-06-01T13:33:06.317-04:002009-06-01T13:33:06.317-04:00I believe his fame comes from destroying London, n...I believe his fame comes from destroying London, not killing Lenin. But it's not clear how he knows the latter will lead to the former.Evil Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-38586380455132766272009-06-01T13:24:02.350-04:002009-06-01T13:24:02.350-04:00Why would Sniper be famous for killing Lenin in 19...Why would Sniper be famous for killing Lenin in 1902? Lenin was just a lecturing lawyer at the time. If he died (a nobody) then someone else would have led the Bolsheviks in 1903. A real coup would be killing Elvis on the Ed Sullivan show!<br /><br />I agree with Dave. I need to care about the characters, or else I won't want to sit through the plot.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14891299299223740869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-51468523245163601042009-06-01T12:54:36.546-04:002009-06-01T12:54:36.546-04:00One of the reasons I pick on STAR TREK so relentle...One of the reasons I pick on STAR TREK so relentlessly and with such evil delight is TIME TRAVEL. They do it so poorly (most of the time). <br /><br />Which is not to say that I don't like Time Travel as a plot line. I do if it is well done. Now the only way to do Time Travel well is to write a character story and make the time travel the background. <br /><br />HG Wells "The Time Machine" only works because of the rescue of the Eloi. <br /><br />The Terminator 1,2,3 only work because we identify with the characters (Sarah, her kid and the humanization of the Terminator) and not the time travel. <br /><br />"Back To The Future" only works thanks to Michael Fox and Christopher Lloyd. The Delorean could have been a Beetle or an eggtimer and it still would have worked thanks to the characters. <br /><br />The best Star Trek time travel "The City on the Edge of Forever" only works because Captain Kirk falls in love and Edith Keeler and it breaks our heart when he has to let her die. <br /><br />The point being - time travel only works when we care about the characters. I just don't get that from your query. I think the query should focus on the characters and not the technical side of time travel. We need to care about one of the characters enough to overlook all the technical elements. Time travel isn't a story of awe and wonder. Time travel will always create "paradox" and destroy parts of the time line. What is left for the reader are characters. <br />That's the way to sell a time travel story.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-44473220576424047412009-06-01T12:13:20.498-04:002009-06-01T12:13:20.498-04:00If they fail to save Lenin, couldn't they just tra...If they fail to save Lenin, couldn't they just travel back in time to stop themselves from failing? And couldn't Sniper travel back again to stop them from stopping themselves from failing? And couldn't they travel back again to stop Sniper from stopping them from stopping themselves from failing? And what if they stop Sniper from stopping them to stop themselves from failing by killing him? Wouldn't one of his henchman travel back in time to prevent them from killing him?<br /><br />This is called the Back to the Future conundrom.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07681932402948885690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-84456640186805688112009-06-01T11:29:24.333-04:002009-06-01T11:29:24.333-04:00Um. Yes. Time travel plots make my little brain ...Um. Yes. Time travel plots make my little brain hurt ...<br /><br />The problem is, if time travel technology is so common, juvenile delinquents can get hold of it ... there have got to be dozens of ways to resolve any situation you can think of. Why is sending Jay and Sandra back to 1902 the only answer? What's wrong with sending them back a couple of days and hitting Sniper over the head before he gets into his time machine? Or going back a couple of decades and ruining Sniper's parents' first date, so they never get together and he's never born?<br /><br />Like EE says, if Sniper goes back to the future and says to his fellow splashers, "Yo! Congratulate me! I just killed Lenin!" ... their response should be along the lines of "Who's Lenin?" "Dunno, mate, I'll Google him ... says here he's some obscure Russian political agitator. Huh. Whatever."<br /><br />If Sniper kills Lenin in 1902, and afterwards another timesplasher goes back to 1898 and shoots Lenin while he's still in exile in Shushenskoye, what happens to Sniper's legend then?<br /><br />... You can see why my little brain is hurting, can't you?Steve Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09836762265698458170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-29499111349837583052009-06-01T11:13:24.164-04:002009-06-01T11:13:24.164-04:00Two amusing meta-riffs on the 'time travel to kill...Two amusing meta-riffs on the 'time travel to kill Hitler' theme:<br /><br />Cartoon:<br />http://www.viruscomix.com/page382.html<br /><br />A short story:<br />http://www.abyssandapex.com/200710-wikihistory.html<br /><br />The latter is very unrealistic! Everyone writes in complete sentences! :)<br /><br />Anyway, more to the point: I really like this trope and I'd definitely read a book about young people playing around with time travel. But I'm not sure this plot description gives me anything to care about. Why *should* I care that there's discontinuity in the space-time continuum?<br /><br />Personally, I'd rather see more in this query about how young people are traumatized by the cult of timesplashing, which seems a lot more interesting and original than 'deadly anomalies'. Not that those might not be necessary for the plot, but I'm not sure that they're the center of the story.Tracey S. Rosenberghttp://tsrosenberg.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-26197009931184860032009-06-01T10:37:46.876-04:002009-06-01T10:37:46.876-04:00Sounds like it has potential, this one, writes the...Sounds like it has potential, this one, writes the sqrl who is currently plot-bunnying a time-travel novel :D.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415222406280230021noreply@blogger.com