tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post117242597158941343..comments2024-03-26T18:28:06.391-04:00Comments on Evil Editor: Face-Lift 280Evil Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03879826770199639420noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172634754469733922007-02-27T22:52:00.000-05:002007-02-27T22:52:00.000-05:00*bows reverently to the pacatrue*Wow. The genius i...*bows reverently to the pacatrue*<BR/>Wow. The genius is not confined to continuations.batgirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15143310557906978680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172625633317488672007-02-27T20:20:00.000-05:002007-02-27T20:20:00.000-05:00Thanks, paca - What you took the time to tell me ...Thanks, paca - <BR/><BR/>What you took the time to tell me makes a huge amount of sense- and I can see how this would work very well. I can also see why mine didn't work, clearly, with your example from LOTR. Truly appreciated.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172605663320500952007-02-27T14:47:00.000-05:002007-02-27T14:47:00.000-05:00Hi Robin S,You asked about whether or not you shou...Hi Robin S,<BR/><BR/>You asked about whether or not you should include the details of molestation and child abuse in your query. A lot of this depends on what exactly you want to convey to the agent. To me, those two items scream 'depressing', but you say in a comment that this novel is definitely not supposed to be depressing. Unless you know a way to make child abuse funny, my guess is that you should not go into such details. The reason that it has come up in EE's comments and here is because the query specifically mentions two pivotal points in the MC's life, so we all naturally wonder what those points are. If there is no space to answer that question, then we need to find a way to not raise the question in the first place by remaining rather generic about the abuse.<BR/><BR/>But now, frustrated author screams, you are telling me to be generic while others are screaming about my query being too generic already!<BR/><BR/>One idea I had to get out of this Catch 22 is to go back to that whole plot question and use it to structure the query. Instead of telling us where the MC starts, go identify where the MC ends in your novel. Is there something close to a climax near the end of the novel? After you've found that point, work backwards. How does the MC get to this climactic point? What obstacle is overcome at the end? How? Why were there obstacles there in the first place and are they internal or external? Maybe the climax is how our MC kicks her addiction to the cut and run. That will be the plot of the book. And if you discover that there's no possible way to understand the climax without knowing specifically about the molestation as a child, then it's in the query. If not, it's not.<BR/><BR/>Maybe that will help?<BR/><BR/>It might be useful (and you understand that working through these things helps me, which is why many of us do it) to see another plot written in the style of the current query letter to see the issues in your real one. So I'm going to take Lord of the Rings hoping that people generally know the plot. LOTR rewritten as a bad query might be something like (and apologies to people who know the details of LOTR better than me):<BR/><BR/>"When Frodo was a young hobbit child of 22, both of his parents died by falling into the Brandywine River. He is adopted by his caring but eccentric uncle Bilbo, and together they live in the dark Baggins estate inside a hill. Due to the eccentricity of Bilbo, Frodo and Bilbo form a sort of closed system in which they care for one another, but have limited relationships with other hobbits.<BR/><BR/>One day a mysterious man appears in town to attend a particular celebration in Bilbo's honor. But Bilbo vanishes in the middle of the celebration and the mysterious man puts Frodo in charge of a very important item. Bilbo and his friend end up dragging themselves through the furnaces of hell to accomplish their great task.<BR/><BR/>A full manuscript is available...."<BR/><BR/>OK, not so good. What I was trying to do is write a big long paragraph about the formation of Frodo's character. And then in the second paragraph, I introduced a lot of specific things - mysterious men, objects, and unnamed friends - but then didn't spell any of them out. A better query letter for this novel would identify the main plot, which is the transformation of Frodo's character by enduring and accomplishing a great task. It would then spell out what the task was and how Frodo got swept up into it in the first place.<BR/><BR/>My guess is that your heroine doesn't drop anything into volcanoes, but she does something which changes her. Try starting your query there. When you are done, the actual ending may not be in the query, but what is left will be pushing hard in that direction. Finally, when writing it up, add the tone that you want for the book. If this is largely fun, like your new beginning, write that tone into the query as much as possible (while remaining professional).<BR/><BR/>pacaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172595803305560922007-02-27T12:03:00.000-05:002007-02-27T12:03:00.000-05:00writtenwyrdd - Hi-I have a group of readers, rathe...writtenwyrdd - Hi-<BR/>I have a group of readers, rather than a writer's group. My "first reader" is a close friend of mine, whose opinion I value highly, and who is not afraid to say - this works, this doesn't, this makes me want to read more, I don't follow or care about this, I like or don't like the voice, etc. <BR/><BR/>I've just started sending my manuscript - one chapter at a time, to a group in a book club in another state from mine (I'm in Virginia) -- this is a group of very insightful, incisive women - and I have asked them to read for prose style, interest or lack of interest in particular parts of the story, story line, coherence, etc. <BR/><BR/>I'be also asked a razor sharp proofreader that I know to go through a separate copy of the manuscript for punctuation, grammar, verb tense mangling, etc. <BR/><BR/>Brenda and anon 10:16 - thanks for your comments - and yes, her brother is a strong part of the story. I thought the sentence in the query that talked about the closed system they developed would be a strong enough hint on this - <BR/>but I see now that the plot needs to be laid out much more deliberately than that.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172589391990753832007-02-27T10:16:00.000-05:002007-02-27T10:16:00.000-05:00Robin, do you have a synopsis of the plot? Try pu...Robin, do you have a synopsis of the plot? Try putting the synopsis into outline form and delete anything that you can so it still makes sense. What's left are plot elements in the running for the query.<BR/><BR/>I gather that Renae's habit of rescuing her brother will be a big part of this book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172589246141438382007-02-27T10:14:00.000-05:002007-02-27T10:14:00.000-05:00Keep in mind that a query and a synopsis are two v...Keep in mind that a query and a synopsis are two very different things.<BR/><BR/>Query - get your hook in, get your main characters in, your plot, your voice. Keep it down to one page in business format.<BR/><BR/>Synopsis - Rule of thumb is 1 page per 1,000 words. So if you have a 70,000 word novel, your synopsis should be around 7 pages, although some will ask for a one or three page - always check submission guidelines. My first novel had a one page, three page, five page and 10 page, each giving more and more detail and plot points. Don't get hung up on crap like "Should it be single-spaced or double-spaced". I promise, 99% of the agents/editors don't CARE (although, again, check submission guidelines). They just want to see that you can carry the weight of the story to completion, that you understand character arc, plot twists, etc., and that's what a synopsis gives them. Synopses are very much TELL and very little show. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="www.lisagardner.com" REL="nofollow">Lisa Gardner</A> has an excellent synopsis worksheet set on her website (you can also get to it from <A HREF="www.brendabradshaw.net" REL="nofollow">my website</A>.) I highly recommend it, and now I'll shut up.<BR/><BR/>wonderwood: I'd leave your mentally and emotionally scarred for life. That's a responsibility I just can't handle right now. *grin*Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17083327647412477394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172584418237814092007-02-27T08:53:00.000-05:002007-02-27T08:53:00.000-05:00Robin, do you have a writing group to work with yo...Robin, do you have a writing group to work with you? They might be able to help you figure out which elements would spark an agent's or an editor's interest.<BR/><BR/>I don't usually read women's fiction because I am addicted to SFF, but this sounds like it could be a really good read. I don't know how I came to that conclusion based on this query, but it really does interest me, lol. Good luck with it.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172584007220796252007-02-27T08:46:00.000-05:002007-02-27T08:46:00.000-05:00stick and move, and saipan writer- Thanks very muc...stick and move, and saipan writer- <BR/><BR/>Thanks very much for your comments – I just saw them this morning - hope it’s not too late to reply – <BR/><BR/>I’m not sure how much to say in the query to make it less generic – for instance, do I mention molestation by a mentally handicapped relative – (the first of the defining moments mentioned in the query) and how Renae, at a young age, is uniquely equipped to deal with this – as she has learned to distance herself from what is happening to her – and how she has learned what to say to get away? <BR/><BR/>Do I mention that she fights to get into a bedroom to shield her brother form her father- because the father is screaming so long and so loudly, at a minor infraction, inches from her brother’s face - that the brother is passing out? Her mother is blocking the door – won’t let Renae in to jump on her father – and keeps repeating, like a mantra, “You’ll just make more trouble, Renae. Wait, wait, it will be over soon, and then everything will be all right.”<BR/><BR/>There are many things I can say to make the plot come alive and be less generic – obviously I have to watch the word count here – but, still, I wasn’t sure if this type of thing is too strong for a query/synopsis. <BR/><BR/>Gutterball - Valeri is a guy. Have a big time with the fantasies! Tall, olive skin, eyes so brown they are almost black, and an incredible accent, deep voice. In pre-med at university - That should get you going.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172550764083495312007-02-26T23:32:00.000-05:002007-02-26T23:32:00.000-05:00I wouldn't mind a recurring dream about a mysterio...I wouldn't mind a recurring dream about a mysterious Bulgarian. So long as it's a mysterious <I>male</I> Bulgarian. Figured I'd better clarify since Mr. Evil was a little iffy on whether or not his new recurrant is a bad thing.<BR/><BR/>Um, Pac-man...what does it mean that my first novel took place on a planet called Ino?<BR/><BR/>Um, author? I don't really read much literary fiction, so this is kinda lost on me. I don't need a dead body on the first page or even breath-taking action, but I do need a plot. I'm positive that you have one. I just want to know what it is. I know you can tell me. No fear.GutterBallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17943760313844692975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172548771840445882007-02-26T22:59:00.000-05:002007-02-26T22:59:00.000-05:00I liked GTP # 5 (but then I like cheesecake-in all...I liked GTP # 5 (but then I like cheesecake-in all its various forms.)<BR/><BR/>Robin,<BR/>I have not yet written a successful query letter. I give that as a disclaimer, so you know I haven't a clue about what I'm doing. Obviously, you want to listen to EE and others with more success.<BR/><BR/>That said, here's my impression of your query: it's all about set-up, motivation, angst, explaining her attitude of "cut and run." And while that's relevant and important, it's not enough to keep me interested.<BR/><BR/>For a character who has a life moving nowhere, submerged in misery, "stuck" like running in dreams, plot doesn't seem to be the focus of the story. But of course, plot happens, it has to, or we (I mean I) won't keep reading.<BR/><BR/>As others have pointed out, there's a generic feeling to your story so far. Find what's different, what's specifically yours, what makes yours stand out--and sell us that in your query.<BR/><BR/>(And remind me of this when I post my next effort--sometime in the distant future.)Saipan Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10030098267460841286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172547483133246492007-02-26T22:38:00.000-05:002007-02-26T22:38:00.000-05:00Brenda, five in a year is definitely not too many....Brenda, five in a year is definitely not too many. How many have you had this year? I've got the month of March open, so if you're taking applications, ah, where do I sign up? :-)Wonderwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13118126631519254865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172546294936367882007-02-26T22:18:00.000-05:002007-02-26T22:18:00.000-05:00"more than one boyfriend at a time..."What kind of..."more than one boyfriend at a time..."<BR/><BR/>What kind of time frame? Define "boyfriend". Five in a year is too many? <BR/><BR/>Huh. I find that interesting.Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17083327647412477394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172542131989226032007-02-26T21:08:00.000-05:002007-02-26T21:08:00.000-05:00Robin, it's good that you are able to take this cr...Robin, it's good that you are able to take this criticism with the right attitude. Several of these comments contain some very useful information. Take what you can use and leave the rest, it's therapy for those who like to jump to conclusions and inject their own frustrations into your efforts. I've seen your openings, you can write, but writing a query letter is a different type of work. More like combining marketing copy with a plot synopsis, all in about 300 words. No easy task for even the best fiction writers. Good luck and keep at it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172541235534106322007-02-26T20:53:00.000-05:002007-02-26T20:53:00.000-05:00What a concidence that your possible novel was set...What a concidence that your possible novel was set among the Canadian prairies, whitemouse. Mine was coincidentally set in a middle size Southern city, oh, kinda like Nashville, where I just happened to live back then. There was an entire scene where the three main characters discuss music and, just by chance again, the heroine's music collection was almost indentical to my own.<BR/><BR/>I'll send anyone who wants it the manuscript, because I know you're all dying to read it. Why do the crickets seem so loud in here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172537289555855272007-02-26T19:48:00.000-05:002007-02-26T19:48:00.000-05:00Dave,No problem - not offended at all. I really en...Dave,<BR/><BR/>No problem - not offended at all. I really enjoy reading your posts.<BR/><BR/>I'm here to learn, and have a good time doing it, and I'm doing both, so it's a good thing. This is the first attempt I've made as writing a query - I've just got some work to do, so I'll do it. <BR/><BR/>Two things - The length of time in the novel is the late 1960s to the late 1970s.Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172535342316902392007-02-26T19:15:00.000-05:002007-02-26T19:15:00.000-05:00Well that was the infamous double standard: Men ca...Well that was the infamous double standard: Men can't be promiscuous even thought they screw everything on two feet (And then some). Whle Women are considered promiscuous sluts if they have more than one boyfriend at a time. Not everyone took drugs, had long hair and had sex on a regular basis. <BR/>That attitude about women still lingers among some people. Not me. <BR/>And that attitude lingered in my Fraternity house over one of the "little sisters" who had an abortion and was a little to fast to give blow jobs for fun. As the years went by, she did turn out to be trouble and remained single. Not that I would generalize that observation. <BR/><BR/>My point was more about what length of time is the novel talking about in the query. <BR/><BR/>I also wondered why you were so secretive with names, places and the like. I looked up Dan'l Boone Nat Forest and found Tennessee. I know the chemical analyses and impurities of the coal fields over that-a-ways (I know that seam as Illinois #6 Burning Star or Powhatan #5, Ohio - big seam)(that was my previous work. Half of my coworkers were hillbillies from the wilds of West Verginy ;) I was unfortunately born 50 niles above the Mason Dixon Line. <BR/>But I digress.<BR/><BR/>"Gonad Looking for Trouble" is an oversexed hothead. <BR/>In a query, brevity is the soul of wit. You only have 200 to 300 words. make all of them work for you. <BR/><BR/>I'm glad you weren't offended and hurt. I was afraid of that.Dave Fragmentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172531610810470072007-02-26T18:13:00.000-05:002007-02-26T18:13:00.000-05:00So, the question is: did you write this one, too?U...<I>So, the question is: did you write this one, too?</I><BR/><BR/>Um, I didn't actually write it, but I started to. <BR/><BR/>And the story was set against the sweeping backdrop of the Canadian prairies, where I completely coincidentally happened to be from. <BR/><BR/>And I was young, oh so very young, at the time. Mopeyness was grand and tragic, back then. <BR/><BR/>Those were the days.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172530173973585132007-02-26T17:49:00.000-05:002007-02-26T17:49:00.000-05:00Wow, where to begin..OK, EE, I see that it's back ...Wow, where to begin..<BR/>OK, EE, I see that it's back to the query drawing board. Thanks for pointing this out, and making me laugh at the same time.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, writtenwyrd, for this: "Due to an emotionally abusive childhood, Renae is emotionally addicted to the art of cut and run, collecting and discarding the men she becomes involved with. In the 1970s, this coping mechanism works-- for a while-- and she meets a few memorable characters such as the Gonad Looking for Trouble, Obscene Phone Call Guy, the rock-hard lifeguard and a Bulgarian named Valeri." Then you can go on to describe a few specific problems that are really key to making this plot move forward. If the brother is important to the plot, keep a mention of him in; if not, lose him in the query.<BR/><BR/>Dave, you are a riot. I'm not from the coal fields of Kentucky, and, in all honesty, if I were, it should be just fine with me, not something to own up to - don't you think?<BR/><BR/>And, as for the number of partners a woman has (and in this novel, it isn't all before the age of eighteen)...well, how many MEN have you ever heard of being called promiscuous? Come on now.<BR/><BR/>This isn't a moribund, depressing story, although there are issues of abuse, etc. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, there is an actual, functional plot - women's/literary fiction, not chick lit, that I did an inadequate job of explaining in this query/synopsis. <BR/><BR/>And I really appreciate that you all took the time to explain why, so I can fix the problems with it. Thanks!Robin S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03258459688300851984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172526561117001682007-02-26T16:49:00.000-05:002007-02-26T16:49:00.000-05:00Yes, we are all great friends still. But you are ...Yes, we are all great friends still. But you are out of luck as they are all middle aged and married. We are talking the 70s, after all.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172523939723765812007-02-26T16:05:00.000-05:002007-02-26T16:05:00.000-05:00Writtenwyrrd said: "During an evening recounting w...Writtenwyrrd said: "During an evening recounting war stories, I recall several women who'd admitted to well over a hundred, some in the several hundreds..."<BR/><BR/>And um do you still have any of their phone numbers by chance?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172523873807159152007-02-26T16:04:00.000-05:002007-02-26T16:04:00.000-05:00Renae is traveling down a pointless pathThis line ...<I>Renae is traveling down a pointless path</I><BR/><BR/>This line summed up my impression of your novel, based on how your query letter described it. The book sounds like a series of events with nothing to tie them together except that they happen to Renae. Is there a point to the novel? If so, we need to know what it is.<BR/><BR/>There appears to be no real plot, which works fine for literary fiction, provided that there's a truth that is uncovered over the course of the book. Show us what we're supposed to get out of reading this. We need to know there's going to be a payoff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172523784305484602007-02-26T16:03:00.000-05:002007-02-26T16:03:00.000-05:00I wrote this novel, too. It was the very first fic...I wrote this novel, too. It was the very first fiction of substantial length that I'd ever written. In mine, Vanessa was lonely and depressed despite the fact that she has two great friends. The plot? You see, she's so lonely and depressed because of something bad in her childhood that I know about but the reader isn't every really informed of. And then in the book, ummm well she's depressed. Oh, yeah, and she sleeps around a lot, but that's all background.<BR/><BR/>Then there are some scenes that have some pretty damn funny jokes in them if I do say so myself.<BR/><BR/>But Vanessa's depressed and lonely, still, because, well, she is. And at the end of the play, she wanders around the city - but not on stage - and then returns with a new spirit and an ability to open herself up to the wonders of life. How did she have this stunning transformation? Hell if I know. I'm just the author.<BR/><BR/>So, the question is: did you write this one, too? One possibility is that you did not write something like my first novel, and you just need to fix the query letter so that no one suspects your work is anything like my attempt at exploring the meaning of life. Another possibility is that you and I did write the same thing. In that case, we have to both move on either by re-writing from scratch with a plot or just moving on to our next and better story. I think next time I'll actually add a story to mine.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I'm guessing that this is the query letter companion to the earlier beginning with the Playboy bunny and one of those Ohio cities with a C (Cincinatti?). I liked that opening, so I'm pulling for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172523582887227502007-02-26T15:59:00.000-05:002007-02-26T15:59:00.000-05:00I also wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.I also wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172522404287764062007-02-26T15:40:00.000-05:002007-02-26T15:40:00.000-05:00Actually, I'm the one who wrote GTPs #2 and #4.Actually, <I>I'm</I> the one who wrote GTPs #2 and #4.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26791026.post-1172522337160873982007-02-26T15:38:00.000-05:002007-02-26T15:38:00.000-05:00"For an eighteen year old to have five lovers in a..."For an eighteen year old to have five lovers in a year is promiscuous, even for the loose 70’s."<BR/><BR/>Oh Dave, I could tell you stories... You are way WAY conservative in your count, trust me on this. During an evening recounting war stories, I recall several women who'd admitted to well over a hundred, some in the several hundreds before AIDS came along.<BR/><BR/>Word veri: vrsecrte, which it wasn't, lol.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.com